A Bride for the Prizefighter
Show Notes
Come with us to Cornwall as we discuss A Bride for the Prizefighter by Alice Coldbreath, a working class romance between a former schoolteacher and a prizefighting publican. This episode includes discussion of the gothic POV, stargazy pie, and a desperate plea to for historical romance authors to write more non-aristocratic main characters.
Books From This Episode
A Bride for a Prizefighter by Alice Coldbreath
A Substitute Wife for a Prizefighter by Alice Coldbreath
A Contracted Spouse for a Prizefighter by Alice Coldbreath
Lord of Scoundrels by Loretta Chase
Uncertain Magic by Laura Kinsale
Mistress of Mellyn Victoria Holt
References
NF Reads Interview with Alice Coldbreath
Transcript
Intro: Welcome to Reformed Rakes, a historical romance podcast that would never leave our wedding night to fight outside your window.
Emma: I’m Emma, a law librarian writing about justice and romance at the substack, Restorative Romance.
Beth: I’m Beth and I’m on booktok under the name bethhaymondreads.
Chels: My name is Chels, I’m the writer of the romance Substack The Loose Cravat, a romance book collector, and BookToker under the username chels_ebooks.
And today we’re going to be talking about the first in Alice Coldbreath’s Victorian Prizefighters series, A Bride for a Prizefighter. This book was independently published in 2020.
This series is unusual in that none of the leads so far are a part of the aristocracy, or even really the landed gentry. In this first book, the hero, William Nye, is the illegitimate son of a Viscount and the heroine, Mina, is a second generation school teacher.
Not only is this series removed from the expanded universe of the gentry and the aristocracy, but it is also set in the world of prize fighting. Historical romance does take up pugilists frequently (the Bareknuckle Bastards of Sarah MacLean’s universe, Lisa Kleypas has a former boxer hero, Tessa Dare also has one). But Coldbreath settles the reader into the world of prizefighting in a way that feels different from these other books--these are not prizefighters attempting to enter the world of the ton, but just existing in their working class lives.
And Coldbreath’s heroines are types that might be relegated to the edges of the narrative in other historicals as well. In an interview with the website, NFReads, Coldbreath said “I always found myself wondering about the fate of the supporting characters who surrounded the peerless, violet-eyed female lead…The sensible, plain-featured friend, the plump sister or the cousin whose mother married into trade and always says the wrong thing. Where were their romances I always wanted to know? Now I take great satisfaction in writing their happy ever afters.”
I think this captures Coldbreath’s writing philosophy and what she accomplishes with this series so well! Here, we get to see what might be a side love story from beginning to happily ever after.
Emma: So how did we all find these books? I think I read them first on Chels’ recommendation. Is that also true for you, Beth?
Beth: Yes, I remember the tiktok even, I was like, I’m going to save this series, because I know I’m going to like it. So Chels well, how did you find it? Then? If we can get it from you.
Chels: Yeah, I think I think somebody read it on Goodreads, and I was like that looks really good, and you know what's quite funny is that I had…for some reason I was like, “these are closed door romances!” I don't know why I thought that that was very wrong. They are not. They're absolutely not.
Emma: They're not!
Beth: That’s interesting!
Chels: I was kind of pleasantly surprised.
Beth: The covers?
Emma: The covers are very pretty. Yeah, I think there is something almost like Amish romance about them. The lighting even makes me think that?
Chels: Yeah, that's…I just I just got it in my head. And then you know about at a certain point I was like, oh, oh, all right.
Emma: I’m going to a quick summary of the books that they were all on the same page.
Minerva Walters, who goes by Mina, has lost a father and gained a half-brother. She had been working at her father’s school for girls in Bath and after her father’s death, the school is going to close down. But before he died, her father told her that he had written to her half-brother and that the brother would be coming to take care of Mina.
Jeremy, Viscount Faris is the product of her mother’s first marriage that ended in divorce. He sweeps her away toward his estate in Cornwall, but Jeremy is incredibly mischievous and later revealed to be on an alcohol binge during this period. He takes her to an inn called The Merry Harlot and insists that she marry its owner: William Nye. Jeremy owns a house that Nye believes to be rightfully his and Jeremy makes the marriage a condition of Nye taking over the house. Mina also has no choice in the marriage--far from her home, which doesn’t really exist for her anymore anyway, and without any prospects, she feels she sort of has to marry in order to have a roof over her head.
The wedding and beginning of the marriage do not go well. After the wedding ceremony, Nye leaves Mina at the church and she refuses Jeremy’s help to return, so she must walk back on the rocky landscape herself. When she arrives back at the Harlot, Mina begins to learn the nature of a public house’s business--part bar, part brothel, part fight club. Nye sends her to rooms in the attic. Through the window of Mina’s attic room, in the early hours of the morning, she can often hear a “rumbling and dragging” sound. She is not quite sure what it is, but Nye seems to discourage her from investigating it further, though it is pretty obvious based on luxuries that the inn has and Nye’s financial situation, that he is involved in a smuggling enterprise.
When Jeremy comes to visit Mina and Nye at the Merry Harlot, he reveals another motivation for the marriage: Nye and Jeremy are also half-siblings, sharing a father, with Nye being the result of the earlier Viscount’s affair with Ellen Nye.
As Mina is attempting to clean some windows with some newspapers, Nye sees her rummaging through stacks of the papers and snaps at her, saying they are being saved for clippings of his prizefights. After dismissively pointing out that he neither asked for a wife or needed one, Mina bolts out of the house, without much thought, running full speed toward the rocky coast. Rather than running over the cliff, she climbs down it to get to the coastline. When Nye finally catches up with her, she beats his chest with her fists and screams at him “I don’t want you either!”
After she wears herself out, Nye carries her back up the cliff and matter-of-factly insists she take a bath and put on warm clothes. He prepares her for bed, making sure she is clean and dry and has eaten. This is the first real intimacy between husband and wife.
Nye continues to be taciturn and laconic, not explaining much to Mina about new expectations that he has for her, including that she stay in a parlor that he decorates with his mother’s things rather than take up chores. Over the next few days, Mina continues to try to make herself useful to the inn and becomes closer with the employees of the Harlot, including Ivy and Edna, the two maids. When she once again puts it in her mind to clear the windows with newspaper, Nye sorts through the newspapers set aside for clippings and provides her with enough. While Mina is cleaning the windows, a man and a woman come to the inn and the man assumes that Mina is a sex worker at the brothel and speaks rudely to her. Mina recognizes the young woman as a former pupil, Cecily, and realizes Cecily is in distress, having run away with the man, but regretting her decision.
When the man asks where Cecily has gone, Mina pretends to have no idea. Nye happens upon the scene and is furious that the visitor is mistreating Mina so harshly and the man is thrown out of the Merry Harlot. Later, Mina has to tell Nye that she is harboring Cecily and that they must return her to her guardian, Sir Matthew, a local Justice of the Peace.
The visit to Sir Matthew puts into focus for Mina how much her life has changed in the course of six weeks--he is the kind of man she was hoping would be her employer as a governess, but she finds him unfeeling and bombastic. She opens up to Nye on the way back to the inn about the circumstances of her father’s death and how she found herself in Cornwall. Nye remains quiet, but surprises Mina when he asks about her interest in being his wife “in earnest.” She had assumed he meant that they would leave completely separate lives. Mina does not seem to fully understand what she might be agreeing to when it comes to wifely duties, but she is uninterested in half measures. Nye immediately kisses her and Mina becomes overwhelmed and unsure of herself, but Nye promises they will try again later.
Nye and Mina start being a couple in earnest in fits and starts and Mina is surprised as both how much she responds to Nye in bed and how talkative and demonstrative her very stern husband is with her. Another fight night is going to be held at the Merry Harlot and this gets Mina more involved in the world of prize fighting and running the inn, to the point that when Sir Matthew visits to thank her for returning Cecily and he begins to offer, Mina has not qualms about cutting him short and refusing to consider leaving her husband or her new life.
Nye frets over Mina’s presence with the prizefighters and she misinterprets him as embarrassed or unfeeling toward her, but he makes it clear that he just wants everyone to respect her. They fall into domestic roles in their marriage, but then Mina is kidnapped by two of the workers at the inn. They are a part of the smuggling ring that is run out of the inn and are angry that Mina has (unknowingly) spurned Nye into wanting to be a part of only legitimate businesses. They plan to use the gossip about Mina bolting toward the cliffs as a way to cover up her murder as a suicide.
Nye brings investigators to the house where Mina is kidnapped, sacrificing himself in order to save her because he is then arrested for his part in the smuggling scheme. Mina is able to use her connections with Jeremy and Sir Matthew to secure his release and after a small misunderstanding where Nye is still prepared to fall on his sword and doubts Mina’s commitment to him, they fully reconcile and get to go on a honeymoon of sorts to Exeter.
So when I first read Coldbreath, I was struck by a few things right away. First off, this is one of the first books I've read, where neither member of the couple is part of the landed gentry, much less the aristocracy and in a similar, but distinct vein I was surprised how much I enjoyed the world building aspects of it. I frequently say that I do not really enjoy world building in romance at all. It's one of the reasons that I struggle through fantasy novels.
I felt like this sort of explained away my supreme affection for Regency and Victorian books. I feel like I'm reading those books, the world is already set. I know what the stakes of the ton are. I know who the lady patronesses are at Almack’s
Coldbreath divests from that quite a bit. We are firmly in the Victorian period. The book is set in 1843, and though Mina’s half-brother is a viscount. We aren't really concerned with groups that we already know as historical romance novel readers.
Prizefighting is central to the series, and I can think of other books where it makes appearances, but it's much more integrated into the plot of this book.
So I was wondering if both of you could speak about your relationship with world building as a function of romance if you feel like you love it, or if you hate it, when your impression of how Coldbreath builds out this new world for us.
Chels: Yeah. So I tend to say that I struggle with world building, too. But I think that might be because I’m thinking of high fantasy world building that can be a bit info dumpy if the author isn't careful with it.
When I start to think about when it comes to historicals, I actually tend to enjoy it more often if there's a noticeable element of world building. If I can't easily be dropped in, if the author has to put considerable thought into politics, art, and the way that people behave in the time.
Beth: I also agree with both of you, which is why we all read romance. Lots of world building is going on in romance. I want to make that clear. But I read romance, because it's typically character, first and then the world is secondary.
But an author can tell so much about a character by how they interact with the world around them, so I like it in details as part of the character's life. I don't want one character giving a paragraph of needed information for the main character to quest. To be fair, my favorite kind of fantasy is where the author also layers in the information through dialogue, and then it will serve a dual purpose of revealing another character's intentions.
I would say, world building is one of Coldbreath’s strengths I think our gut reaction, when you hear the term worldbuilding, is to reduce it to setting, but it encompasses class, food, language, politics, religion. history, race like so many things.
Emma: That's true, and this is not in this book, but there is a food that is described in the second book in the series that I think about still. Like I just like crave this food more than any other food like the the little meat pies that they have at the fair in he second book I think about all the time
Chels: I like what stargazy pie is from this book, oh that's what that's called!
Emma: Oh, I don’t crave stargazy pie!
Chels: No, I don’t! I’m a vegetarian.
Emma: A lot less appetizing. Yeah, I think I think also pointing out like character-first, because I'm thinking about the world building that Coldbreath does like, I think, the plot with Ivy the maid, because Ivy is a very secondary character, she's not really central to the plot at all, and I think she could very easily just be someone on the sides, but she eventually elopes, and this is a big part of the plot of like why Mina it gets more integrated into the second prize fight, because they're they're down a staff member.
But that sort of like romance that she's taking on, and how she describes her romance where we do, we don't even meet the guy that she runs off with, that feels like that's part of world building, but it's through the plot of Ivy, which I think probably takes up maybe a total of like 10 pages like spread out across the whole book of like.
We get Ivy’s whole arc from sort of flippant, almost like silly maid. She's the silly maid between the two maids that Nina meets, and then she has this very sweet romance where she has to run off, and that I think that sort of shapes a lot of the world building for me to and like how we see we've also learned how Mina is more of a romantic than maybe she would seem, because she's so supportive of Ivy. Running off.
Beth: She gives her a half half crown, and it's very, very nice.
I like that you brought up the food in the this book, because so many pages are devoted to Mina doing chores and like making food and literally running this inn. Thay I feel like I can picture it, and I think the more I read, the more I put weight on how memorable those scenes are like! If I can picture them in my head, I feel like the author has done a good job like writing out her writing out their scene, if that if that makes sense.
Emma: Yeah. And I I was thinking about this earlier before we recorded. There are certain books that I’m not sure why. It is because I wouldn't even necessarily describe them as like description, heavy books. But somehow I still have, like very specific memories of the settings that they're in. Like I feel like I could have a dream set at the Merry Harlot, and I would like to know where the rooms are. And the another book like this is My Sweet Folly by Laura Kinsale something about the house in that book like I know. I feel like I know where all the rooms are.
And then there's a castle in the McCabe trilogy by Maya Banks that I just like. I feel like I know what the castle looks like, but none of these books I would describe as like, oh, like they're not doing like layout description. It’s like very integrated into the whole plot. Maybe that's world building that I like right. I know where rooms are.
Beth: Yes. Chels, I feel like I cut you off.
Chels: I was trying to think of like houses that I feel like intimately familiar with, and I'm like, it’s Graham's house from black.
Beth: So I do like Graham's house.
Emma: I do like the description of like the in Black Silk, the like the center gardens that they have to like when she's like walking through the chairs because they're having a party, and Submit is trying to like get across a room, and there are all these chairs it's like this
Chels: is that is that Graham's house?
Emma: That may be his mistress’s house. She finds him at the party. I just think about that like awkwardly like, yeah, it's weird to move through a party when you’re not part of a party.
Beth: I’m thinking of submit, and how she's talked about like, cause she wears black clothes, and she like shuffling around it just like this is very unique silhouette, and I think that's another thing that sticks in my mind. I don't even really like clothes are fine. I know some people really like the details, but I feel like there are certain things that will stand out my mind about clothes. And it's adding to the character cause me and I had to, I think, die one of her dresses black, because you know she's in mourning, but she doesn't have a lot of clothes, and then there's that part, where their first time they have sex where Nye is like. I want you in red stockings. and then she gets red stockings at the end of the book.
Chels: And then I love that scene, too, because there's before you get to the stockings part. There's Nina has this like kind of trepidation about getting unclothed because of she dyed her dress black, and then that her under clothes underneath have, like a grayish tinge to it, which is like not the sexiest which is actually kind of like one of the few times, you see Nina, like actually being kind of like a little bit concerned about the way…like she has like uncharitable thoughts about herself every now and then, when she's like looking in the mirror, and she just like I look like I'm a mess, but, like I, I she's kind of like so hung up on like the practicality of things that that's that was kind of like a small moment where you got to see like Mina being like really really nervous about what she and I were about to do, which they were about to sleep together for the first time.
Beth: Yeah, I feel like that's these nice little details that are both in and that stick with you. But it's also like adding to the character it's, adding to the setting it's telling us, like Mina has limited resources in the world like it's it's doing a lot.
Emma: Okay, so world building is what sort of one aspect of the structure of this book but another part that's sort of different, and really unlike a lot of books that I've read. I think I've only read one other book that is built like this. This is a single POV book I've gushed before on the podcast about how much I love Dual POV--but I also love dual POB, and it's 99% of the books that I read.
Emma: So there I've read 2 completely single POV books, this one and Uncertain Magic by Laura Kinsale.. And in that book, Uncertain Magic, there's a very specific plot reason for it being a single POV. There's some mystery here with the smuggling, but, like I said it's it's not, it's not like a mystery that the heroine has to solve. It's more just… it's more of a mystery because it's a single POV, but it's not being kept really from the reader. and you know Mina figures it out pretty fast.
But what is the effect for y'all when you're reading this? A single POV does it affect your experience of the book. And what do you feel like was added to the book by this limited perspective?
Chels: I like that you brought up Uncertain Magic by Kinsale, because that's a Gothic romance, and something that's a convention of Gothic romance or is it used to be called romantic suspense. Particularly when it was re-popularized in the 1960s and 1970s is single POV. It makes a lot of sense why gothics. In this era would be from the heroine's perspective because a lot of attention is built on what the heroine doesn't know about her love interest like. Is he a murderer? Does he love her, or is he just toying with her?
So Coldbreath actually mentioned that she's a fan of Victoria Holt and her reddit AMA and Holt is a juggernaut of the genre, largely credited with revitalizing Gothic romance with 1960’s Mistress of Mellyn, which is a classic set up of a governess, spoiled ward, and a spooky slash, malevolent, aristocratic, single dad.
So in this book Coldbreath isn't building like a huge mystery here, as you mentioned, but she does use the single POV to build tension in other interesting ways. So if this were a Gothic, it would be a lot more about Nye’s smuggling being the mystery. But Mina is fairly aware of it, and also kind of unbothered, I want to say, like she acknowledges it, but she doesn't really like dwell.
And Nye isn't being super subtle in that regard, either. So instead, the single POV really just shrouds Nye’s feelings about Mina , which is also kind of a Gothic thing, too, like you don't like, how does how does the love interest actually feel like slash, spooky?
You called Nye Iaconic earlier and I think that's like a 100%. I think that it the single POV does a lot of work in like building up the marriage of convenience and building that tension, that miscommunication like it. It works really well here.
Beth: Yeah, I like the single POV. I like that you talked about Gothics, and it's and you're right. It's not a mystery and a lot of mysteries are first person, and it's all about controlling information which I think is similar to what's happening here like, we're trying to control the flow of information. And I think there's world where there's a dual point of view Bride for a Prizefighter. But I like how it is all through Mina’s perspective she's very naive. She has this like uncommunicative partner and I think it enhances that part of the marriage that we she, how she perceives Nye, where we can see that he's jealous. But she's just like, what is he doing?
I think it really helps actually, at least for their story. Coldbreath’s subsequent books, they’re both dual POV.
Emma: yeah, I think the naivete of Mina is really on point for the single POV. Because I think so. It's like I. It's one of the books. I feel that when i'm reading like a virgin here, or have virgin heroine, I'm like she seems like a virgin like she's. She seems very uncomfortable around men, and there are some moments where I think where Nye is sort of like falling for her or trying to flirt with her, and she is taking it at face value.
She has no ability to sort of read between the lines, and it's there…those are the moments where I felt like oh, it an author whose writing a dual POV would have a flip, and I see like will sort of being frustrated or charmed by her: sort of innocence, or like misunderstanding him, or even being frustrated by it; but that It feels because we only have her knowledge, and we're sort of stuck with her thoughts. We're only getting this information from her where she's like, why is he acting this way? And it's like oh, any historical romance novel reader would know that he's acting this way because he's like falling in love with his wife.
He finds her beautiful, and he's nervous around her, and he's also…so at one point he thinks that Mina is Jeremy's cast off mistress, because he doesn't know that they also are half siblings. So he's also has this like jealousy towards that relationship, and he's like he's mad at Jeremy for giving him his cast off, because he feels like Jeremy is treating him like a second rate man.
And all these things where it's like we would get that internal process of him dealing with like because he sort of has like a second son thing too, because he's the illegitimate son. But we don't get any of that internal processing, because, and Mina has no idea that he's doing that, but also you can assume that he probably is processing that we are only just dealing with the external aspects of it, which is also that's what life is like when you are dealing with someone else's internality like the you only get what they externalize, which for Nye for so much of the book is not a lot, because he's very quiet.
Chels: Yeah, and it's so funny you just coming off the miscommunication episode that we did a little bit ago, and talking about dual POV so much, and then getting this book, where there is just like so much, so much miscommunication and single POV, and how it kind of like works differently, but works really really well here. Something that I think about all the time, and really like, is like the kind of misunderstanding of the purpose of the sitting room. Like for Mina…so Nye has this sitting room that he's kind of like done up for Mina like, so he wants her to feel like kind of more of a fancy lady.
And he's like brought his mother's belongings in there. But he doesn't really know how to tell her that he wants….he's trying to do something nice for her. So he's just like, go in that room and sit in that room and enjoy that room, and then every time she's like out somewhere else, eating like dinner in the common room. He's like, why aren't you in your room enjoying your room?
And she's just like you don't want me to do anything, why are you so bossy? And I just thought I just loved that, because, like I could quite tell like this was extremely out of character for him to like to like to like, bring up fancy things and try to make her comfortable, and but and he's like a little bit embarrassed by it, and he doesn't really know how if he can, or how to tell her that he's trying to do something nice for each other. The way that he talks to Mina at this point is primarily just giving brief, curt orders. And so this is kind of like an extension of that to her, instead of her seeing it as much of a kindness as it was intended to be.
Emma: Yeah, and I think I think some people might take issue with this to sort of his curtness. But again, it's like kind of like the virgin heroine part I feel like this is a very realistic reaction to a marriage of convenience where it's like he has to build himself up to ask her like, do you even want to like try to be my wife like, or is this just gonna continue to be a marriage of convenience? He knows that she, after he realizes that she's not Jeremy's mistress
He sort of realizes, she’s a virgin, realizes she does not have experience with men, and it's like Well don't want to like make her uncomfortable like. What do what do I do? But also I've never I it wasn't two weeks ago I didn't realize I was about to have a wife. So his his sort of brusqueness and sort of sudden ask of her, I think, is actually very realistic, and there's a marriage of convenience which I also like reading where they're suddenly like, oh, okay with it, like they, they, their sexual relationship starts immediately, or that they understand like that. They put duty first, they also don't really have a duty here like there's not like the heir duty, because they're middle class like they don't. There's not this pressure to have children. That's not why they're getting married. They're getting married for economic reasons, but not for the same sort of reasons that we see marriage of convenience in most other like for that trope with the with the upper classes.
Beth: Yeah, I like that. You talked about how well both of you talked about how he's just issuing orders. And I think again, that's very realistic, like you, said Emma, because he’s the boss at the Merry Harlot. That's how he's used to communicating with people like. He just tells them what to do, and they do it. And so, for he now has this wife where he has to learn like a new communication style, because you can't just issue orders to your wife, even though, like, Chels said, you know he's trying to do a good thing like they'll sit in your parlor that's like for nice women, or the time he like tells her to go to the kitchen. Which sounds so bad, but he just doesn’t her around the prize fighters.
She's understandably upset, and it's just at least one of my favorite parts of the book where he's like. This is my wife. Don't don't bother her, don't look at her. Her name is Mrs. Nye to you.
Emma: Which is all Mina wanted for him to be like “this is my wife. Be nice to her!” Because that that's what he thought he was doing when he was like “everyone ignore her.”
Beth: But the other characters can tell like, oh, he's really into his wife, and he's like staking his claim here, and it's just like Mina thinks he is being mean and rude, and it's understandable. I'm not like coming for Mina ke, Emma said, she has very limited experience. This is her first relationship.
Chels: yeah, she hasn’t quite gotten exactly like what is out of character for him quite yet any else. Also he is kind of acting a little bit in character, though because it's still kind of like that abrasive behavior, but it's just like the reasoning behind it is different. So like it would be harder to get a read on that.
Emma: Yeah, it also looks the in character out of character thing. I think Mina presents presents in one way, because there's this backstory with her where she's raised by the school teacher and his wife. But his wife is a divorcee, and it's like that, she realizes throughout the book like a lot of her life and how she was raised must have been the result of her parents sort of having to be isolated, like the fact that she grew up in Bath like sort of this isolated town, and like by the 1840s Bath is not like a heyday vacation spot that it once was what like a for Jane Austen. It's sort of becoming more and more unfashionable. So she's in this remote location her parents don't really socialize, so she's very prim and proper, but she realizes that is part of that is coming from like the the necessity of how she was raised. And also Mina is kind of sassy and cheeky and she's always sort of like surprised at herself for doing that, because she she's so used to people saying like Don't do that because you're a teacher, you're supposed to be setting this example for people. And now she's like coming into her own as like a publican's wife which again Nye thinks like that's out of character for her. But actually it may be better suited for her role as teacher, like she seems to have enjoyed working as a teacher, but maybe finds her students a little silly, like when Cecily comes. She's a little frustrated with the student
Emma: who is, or the former pupil who is It's not really thinking about the economics of situations. It's not very sympathetic, I think we need to get frustrated with sort of the the ton people from her students. So she she's, we’re watching the stakes change for her.
So I think Nye is also watching Mina come into her own, and learning what is, and is not like in character for her, and he has like one sort of vision of her like she comes to him in mourning. and he thinks that she's like a prude. It's like Mina is not actually a prude, she just has never interacted with a man before.
Chels: He tells her. I think it's maybe a little bit towards the end, they get into one of their many fights. Their fights are so fun. I love their fights, but they get into one of their many fights, and then she's like kind of pretending that she's like had enough, and then n is like you're in your element. She absolutely is like she was made for this. She's perfect for this
Emma: So we talked about, you know, working, and I talked about in the introduction of the series, the couples in the whole series. So far both have been working class. So there's no like inheritance or title that's coming to save the conflict. No one's going to inherit a ton of money. No one's going to suddenly be in a position of power that they weren't before they just sort of have to muster forward and their position at the beginning of the book economically, it's not that different than the one at the end
Mina is also in this position that heroines are often threatened with in books. I feel where they they're going to be saved economically by their marriage. But in this one the marriage happens first. Emma Kearney: Mina is parentless. She's jobless. She's been looking for a governor's position. She can't find one. It's kind of unclear what would happen to Mina if Jeremy wasn't in the picture, and he didn't come and whisk her off to Cornwall.
I'm not sure if I've read another book like this except the other ones by Coldbreath. So what are you all thoughts about? How she manages these sort of really grounded economics for what Mina and Nye have to do.
Beth: I like that Coldbreath establishes why Mina says yes, fairly early on. And Nye asks her he's like, I know what i'm getting out of this. I'm getting my property like. What are you getting out of this marriage? And she's very straightforward, and is like I didn't have any options like. What was I going to do?
Emma: I think that relates to like consent in romance novels. It’s not that Mina is not consenting to Nye, it just that her consent is holistic. She has to look at all of her circumstances. Nye is not doesn't seem like he's gonna be a cruel husband. He doesn't beat her. He doesn't, she's not in danger with him, and so her option seems pretty good like it seems this is. But she also what it is, her other option like going out on the street like she's. She's not even somewhere where she's been before she's in Cornwall. She's not even where she was raised.
Like that consent and Coldbreath making it explicit that Mina has to like, articulate it to herself and then articulate it back to Nye That's something that I feel like in other romance novels is also a problem like these heroines who don't have places to live unless they marry the hero or they're they're currently living in the house of the hero, or they're beholden to the hero economically. Those consent are also complicated, but the book doesn't necessarily make it complicated, and it's it's sort of this like unspoken thing, because they want the consent to to be, if, like enthusiastic and romantic, while Mina’s consent is more, it's romantic and economical, or it's really starts exclusively, economically, and then becomes romantic.
She sort of makes the quiet part out loud for the for that part for Mina.
Chels: Yeah, I really like that point. I think that it's it's good to kind of like have kind of like a clear-eyed view of both like where Mina and Nye stand, and I like that not just at the beginning, and then, but also at the end, like something that I thought was kind of novel is how so kind of at the end is usually like, okay. And then here is how they make their fortune, and this doesn't happen in this book. In fact, it has like a pretty time limit.
they're gonna be kind of like a coaching station. Is that right?
Emma: Yeah, People are gonna like, Stop the horses there.
Chels: They're gonna expand that part of the Merry Harlot, formerly Merry Harlot. They renamed it to the Prizefighter, but they have kind of like a hard stop at like 10 to 20 years, based on railroad expansion, so they know that they have to make a decent amount of their money within this time, and that is I think that's really cool. I think that's kind of reminds me of Lydia from the Blackshears, where she, when she was like working as a courtesan on She's like, okay, I have, I'm going to do this for a certain amount of years, and then i'm done, and I'm just going to live off of this. It's not necessarily like this, like beautiful, elegant dream, but it's like it's security, and that is, I think that's like what a lot of people really strive for.
So there's kind of this common idea that romance is a fantasy, and then it's an escape, and I do think it can be, but I bulk at the idea that comes with it. There's always a wish fulfilment and sort of self insertion, which is like how I think people refer to like the Duke romances and the ones where they like have to overnight a dress from the modiste. stuff like that.
And I think that, like having Mina and Nye as main characters, and getting to read them in these situations with their own compelling story and deep mutual respect for each other, and like some really stunningly romantic scenes, I think that should kind of like put that to rest, because I don't read romance for extravagant wealth, like I think it could be really fun to talk about things that come with well, like the artwork of the time, the fashions, the the beautiful dresses.
But there is all also, you know, stargazy pie, and walks in the middle of the road, and other things that kind of like read as much more. like a much more compelling, grand gesture than some better, just kind of like throwing money around.
Beth: Yeah, I feel like often wealth is rewarded to characters at the end of the book, and I don't really I don't know it's not that it's bad always or bad per se. But I wish we could investigate these other ways to end stories like You're saying it's just as romantic, these walks that they go on, and just the meals that they shared together.
Emma: Yeah, I think people struggle like when there it's like you talk about like middle class or working class romance and historical period people struggle with what : like, what do they do like? The even the characters are like. What what will I do if I don't marry Well, what will I do? What will a viscount do if he doesn't marry an heiress?
Well, what what does anybody do like when they don't have money like they work.
Chels: What do viscounts do now!
Emma: Right! It's like there. There are jobs there are people it like, I think, like that. What this is, relates to like Mina and Nye sort of as like side characters that we would meet like they're the even in the on the Unmasked, where they they go off, and when they're eloping, when the brother and sister are looping, they're not brother and sister to each other,
Beth: Louisa and yes, Graham. No, that's the wrong name.
Emma: Gilbert!
Beth: Gilbert!
Chels: This Unmasked by the Marquess
Emma: A secondary couple elopes in that book they meet a couple at an inn who's like, who helps them. And I love that, we read this so close to that, because this is like Nina and I. I can imagine them sort of being the secondary, like older couple that we meet in a romance novel sort of helping someone, especially as they're like going to be like an exchange like coaching inn. it was like people are going to be coming there who are eloping it. It's just very, very. But yeah, there there are these like side characters who are who get to have their love story, and it's the side characters who work. Because we obviously in romance, we're frequently meeting people who are in service, people who are running inns, who are making sure that the couple like can move through the world. But obviously these people also have relationships, and they can be romantic even if they're working for coins.
Beth: Yeah, I love that Mina stays close to the servants like a at the Merry Harlot. We have Edna and Ivy, Ivy’s one who elopes, but she still keeps in contact with her, maid from her old home, Hannah, like there's a few parts which she met, since Coldbreath mentions she that Mina writes a letter to her.
So these people have, like much more fleshed out lives in this book, whereas in other romances Maybe your maid is just there with you like. What is her internal life? We don't know, but Coldbreath is one who will investigate that.
Chels: Okay. Yeah. And something that I have just been. I've been thinking about so much, especially with this book, and then kind of like we're working at the end. And being in that part is that these characters like i'm glad that you brought up on Unmasked by the Marquess, because Cat Sebastian, like, of course, like kind of treat them like people. But there are a lot of so many historical romance novels where every time we get the in scenes i'm just kind of like cringing my way through them because they're sometimes they write these these characters as like comic relief, who would be kind of like over awed by the Duke's presence in a road trip romance where there's eventually only one bed.
So I feel like there's kind of an unsettled hostility in writing these characters. They're like we'll do anything for an extra coin there.. And this has kind of been a source of ire for me a lot of the times. So seeing Mina and Nye written this way is really nice, and I also kind of wanted to get back to Iv.
Chels: Because if anything, it's the bar maid who really suffers, and Ivy is kind of one of those one of those characters where she she is. She does sex work, she she works in the she works in the bar. It's just like a part of her life.and she's very kind, and she's friends with Mina. But this character and a lot of other historicals is kind of just like Oh, it just stresses me out so much. It's usually the ones who are like threateningly flirting with the man, and like brushing their boobs up against him.
Emma: And it makes the heroine realize that she she's like, oh, I do have feelings for this man that I've been trapped in the carriage with
Chels: Yeah, it's just like those scenes, and they're so common like I could I? Then I could just like pick up, look off the myself, but I can find one of those seems like it's just so common, and it bothers me so much because it just feels like there's like a hostility to the working class, and I don't get it like. I don't quite understand why that's necessary.
So that's kind of another reason why I really appreciate them kind of getting their own story. Because I do you think that there? I don't think being a duke is inherently more interesting.
Emma: I guess maybe I should say we're talking about Ivy I did call the Merry Harlot a part brothel, but Nye makes it very clear that he's like not taking part of any of Ivy's earnings because it just like. And this is one of the things that I think impresses Mina the most that, like Ivy sort of gets to do her own thing. She runs her own business and this is the so Ivy ended up in her circumstances because she was the victim of like a bigamist scheme like her first husband, was bigamous, and had sort of abandoned her to the world after his bigamy was revealed. So she she it's like falls on sort of bad luck where she can't, and she can't come out of this like social hole because she's she's like a fallen woman because of a bigamous man, someone committing sort of a fraud. But yeah, Ivy’s great. That also like that. Mina. Is this like bridge between Ivy and Edna, the other maid, who sort of they don’t seem to get along at the beginning of the book.
But then Nina is just genuinely interested in both of them, and makes sure she treats both of them with respect. So she treats Ivy with like more gravitas, and she gives Edna pretty things, and I think both of them think the other one is the one who would get those treatments like that, and Edna would be the serious one who is treated with respect. And Ivy get the the gifts. But she treats them both equally, and I think that helps their relationship. And that's just nice to see that Mina is like it sort of clues you in early that Mina would be good at being a publican's wife, because she's good at bringing people together and having them get along.
Chels: She's so good at reading people like she knows. I think there's 1 point where she says that Edna's greatest dream is to own like a tea kettle and 3 cats.
Emma: Where The most information come from? But like she just knows!
Chels: Yeah, and I was. I do. There was no point where Edna was like. I want a tea kettle, 3 cats, but like I, but you could. There were like scenes where Edna had been kind of like, very be careful with Mina’s china, and I think that committee is kind of like where she like picked up on that. But yeah, no, I just really I really liked. I I really like getting that information from her.
Emma: Yeah. So one side character in this book sort of looms large, and has, like maybe an outsized presence in the plot, and also our minds. And that's Jeremy that's both hero and heroine's half brother. It's Nye’s half brother through their father? Yes, yes, and Mina through their mother. So Nye and Nina are not related, but they are both half of siblings with Jeremy.
Jeremy is the Viscount he pulls them together. He's a weird guy. He's a weird character, and how Coldbreath handles him is fascinating. So what are your reactions to Jeremy in the book, and also sort of his side plot in the book?
Beth: I think more rich people should be depicted the way Jeremy is like you, said he's weird. I'm like rich people are weird like they can kind of just do like they have access to things that other people don't, and they can get away with things like. How would you not be like a little weird? So and then we later learned he's going through like this really rough marriage. He and his wife, Amanda, they're gonna get divorced. And this is I think he drinks a lot because of it like that's the whole reason that Mina and Nye even end up together is
Emma: cause he was like I had been drunk for like 2 weeks, and this is like the one part where Mina ike, not great at reading people she was like, oh, but that like that makes sense now. But like the entire time, I knew you, you were drunk.
Beth: Yeah, So I but you, Coldbreath handles them so Well, I think Emma you said you did not like on the first time you read it. When I read it, I didn't like it for the first half for the book, and then by the end I was like, I kind of love you.
Emma: Yeah. I thought he was like I think he was gonna be much more of a. I think I was like waiting for the other shoe to drop. I was like he's going to betray Nye or something like that. He's being set up as this villain because he's so useless, so I can on on the reread. I did realize so he's he does to have this like very sincere affection for his son.
Like he, his son, has been brought back from boarding school. The mother wants to send him back to boarding school. Jeremy really doesn't want to, because it's like the there's like a consumption outbreak at school, and he's like I'm not sending my child back to like this infected school, and they seem to It kind of reminded me of Dain and his son where it's like he meets him at his level. Teddy is a little less troublesome than Dain’s sound in Lord of Scoundrels.
But it's like Jeremy all of a sudden who we see is this like only indulgent of his own whims, is suddenly like indulging his son's whims in this very charming way, and and it it sort of explains things to him at his level is very in and wants him to be close to his aunt.
It's very sweet, and so that reading it at the second time made me realize it was like. Oh, I I see more that a Coldbreath is setting Jeremy up as having like some redeeming factors, and you just seem to genuinely care about Mina, and Nye by the end of the book, or even earlier in the book, he just doesn't does it know how to how to do any? The reason that he gives for why, wanting to then to get married, he's like it makes sense to you that, like two people that I would, I should care about should live together. They should be married to each other, my siblings, it's like more convenient for me.
Beth: Yeah, I love Mina and Jeremy's relationship as well, because it's kind of fraught a little bit at the beginning. Mina doesn't know how to take him. Nye even says you call him Jeremy, and then you call him like by his title, sometimes like he should probably decide whether he's your brother or not. But there's this very sweet scene that I love where Teddy the I mean is about to say goodbye. And then Teddy's like, Well, you should give Jeremy a kiss. And so he was like, okay. So she kisses him on the cheek, and Jeremy is actually like did you pull at my heart strings like love that little little relationship development on the side there. So
Emma: Yup, very sweet. So Coldbreath has talked about making Jeremy the hero of a future book, so she has in a few different places, has said that she's struggling to think of what his story is going to be. But I think it'd be interesting for both to see Coldbreath to write a Viscount d also like what her vision of like, who's going to be? Who is going take Jeremy down a peg, cause. Yeah, he's just he's one of those like secondary characters. He just sort of like sticks in your craw where you're like. What? What? What could that be which is interesting. It's like a definitely like a flip from normal, because that we usually have, like a vision of like what a by count is like, and and he's also usually the hero. While the people moving around him are not the central characters.
Chels: The only thing that I was gonna say about Jeremy is that like I I think, kind of like one of the really interesting things about him, because he he is kind of like a chaotic force, but, like he's very, very lonely, and I really like how Coldbreath shows that, like the very at the at the very I think it's with the picture that I yeah. So he, he, he and Mina share a mom, and so kind of like one of the first things, because he's never seen her before, and when he needs her for the first time. He's like you don't look anything like her, and he's like palpably disappointed because he didn't really have that much of a relationship with his mom a book before she ran off with Mina's dad, and I think that he was kind of hoping to form some sort of connection with Mina through that and that kind of like comes up a few different times and like a different photograph. So there's also another photograph later on, and that is of Nye’s father, which is also Jeremy's father, and Jeremy Nye looks just like his biological dad.
And so so in that case he kind of does have that connection with Nye that he was kind of like looking for with Nina, for, like the visual connection, but he had, like a obviously very fraught relationship with his father. So I think that he's just kind of like a little bit untethered family, wise and and also being kind of like stuck in a bad marriage.
I think that I think it's kind of like interesting to see him, and you know, like kind of dancing around like forming a relationship with each other, and then like at some point night to cause Nye just really doesn’t like Jeremy at all. I think that them kind of like all being together as a family unit is pretty interesting.
Chels: Yeah. So we were talking earlier kind of about this kind of miscommunication between Mina and I, and how they were kind of like didn't. You have a good read on each other, and we're just like to generally getting very frustrated with each other. And a lot of this was done by single point of view. And so we talked about how single point of view is frequently an element of Gothic romance. But there's something that's kind of a pivotal moment in the book where Nina, and I argue I think it was when he was so what was it when he was telling her to stay in the kitchen?
Emma: I think it's right after the clippings Where? Because she sort of snaps at her, and it's like those are my clippings, and she stands there for like 5 min, and then it's like what I do? And then she runs to. She bolts out because he's just like snapped at her and left the room.
Chels: Yeah, and so she snaps or he snaps, and then she runs away, and she's like fleeing onto the cliffs, which is like a very Gothic image. So we're kind of back to this Gothic thing again, and then Nye being kind of like the laconic Gothic hero. But what I want to talk about when it comes to the clips is this is like a turning point for Mina and Nye’s relationship this is actually, when.
like the kind of like enough moment. What are your thoughts on that?
Emma: Yeah, I love that. It's also one of the moments where I think Mina realizes that she is also being misinterpreted, because she thinks that she's the that if not, Nye talked to her more, or told her more things. There was more clear that the relationship would be more compatible or easier. But Nye thinks that Mina is like about to run off the cliff.
Like everyone thinks that she's about to commit suicide, and that comes up later. It's like they that the rumors about that are gonna help the smugglers cover up her murder. So it's like there's this sort of rumor that, like Nina, was running towards the cliff to fling herself off of it, which is never Mina as intention really like. She sort of realizes that. Oh, that could have happened If I've been running fast enough. I could have slipped over the cliff, but she climbs down the cliffs instead.
And so Nye comes after her and he like grabbing on to her, thinking like, oh, my wife was like about to commit suicide. And when she realizes that that was his interpretation. I think it's the first moment where she realizes like. Oh, I've also not been like clear with him about how I'm feeling because I don't want to. I don't trust him like there all these it's like, Why would you tell her them to tell him these things? And it's like that is also happening on his side like Why would he be forthcoming about his feelings? You're a stranger.
So that that's a big part of the the turn that it's she realizes that she's in a relationship with him, and that what she's experiencing he may also be experiencing on some level of like. What do I do with this person, who, I don't know, is a stranger. I'm now living with. It’s like moment of empathy for Mina toward Nye.
Beth: yeah. It's also the I feel like this is the Coldbreath formula where you have your marriage of convenience, somewhat reluctant partners. But then the male character is like, I'm gonna take care of this person. So they get back from the cliffs. He insists me to take a bath, he, and so she keep the door open, just because in he says in the book like you look like you're about to drop like you. You look exhausted, so I just wanna make sure like you're okay.
And I don't know. I think this is what makes me keep coming back to cold breath. I just love this particular dynamic over and over again in every kind of setting. So
Chels: yeah, it's it's really great, and it's kind of like he's kind of able to. and this is kind of a a way that he can communicate kind of early on before he's like able to really talk to Mina because, like they're like nonverbal signals of care, like washing your partner, putting lotion on them like brushing their hair like
Emma: When he brushes her hair! Every time I read it wrecks , because it's not even like it's not sexual at all, but it's like the sexiest thing he does in the book. I know that you're gonna fall asleep on it unbrushed. So you just have to let me brush it.
Chels: Oh, so cute.
Beth: Yeah, I think Coldbreath really excels at those like non verbal cues, and like building the relationship between couples spending time together like talking together, maybe not quite understanding the other person like showing up and supporting it's: yeah, definitely one of her strengths.
So we've all read the prizefighter like we've read the whole series, which one is your guys's favorite?
Chels: I think Emma and I both like Substitute Wife for the prize fighter, probably the best I just I love.
Emma: That's the one that said at a traveling fair which it's like I' I didn't. I couldn't believe that Coldbreath took like world building in this book, and like raised it to the nth degree of like having setting, putting me in a totally new setting, because it's not even it's not even in a house. It's like in a in like a traveling caravan. Yeah, it's so charming.
Beth: I would have said the second is my favorite. But maybe, after re-reading this one. Maybe it's tied for both. But I like the traveling fair, and in the third one it's set at like at a theater.
Chels: Yeah. So i'll tell you what I like the best, but because I love, I think all of them are so good, and they they don't. They're not similar to each other at all like they're all prize fighters. But there's not really like, I think the second one is only the one that really like substantially deals with prize fighting.
Beth: Yeah, he like has this boxing booth like every yeah like people challenge him, and he fights them.
Chels: Yeah. So I mean, we just did a whole episode of why we like this one. The second one, I think, is really really great of such a good kind of like really intimate slow burn like it’s kind of hard to describe. But yeah, the the fair life. I could just read that I could read like a 1,000 more pages of that book, and the third one I is at the heroine, she's like an actress, and she wants to be a male impersonator, and something that's like so delightful about the third book is that her husband of convenience doesn't think she's gonna she can do it, but she doesn't realize that so the whole time he's like “she's gonna fall on her face.”
Beth: But he's still supportive the whole time, like he internally doesn't believe she can do it. The outwardly is doing everything he can to help support her career. And so eventually it becomes him, being afraid, because he cares about her like he doesn't want her to like. be embarrassed or like, fall on her face or something.
Chels: And like, I I like, I know we want Jeremy's book. But I’m like kind of okay with. I'm like I'm on the outlier here, where I'm like kind of okay with not Coldbreath say in her AMA that she's like struggling to put it him with other people. But then that kind of goes back to something that we said offline is that maybe Jeremy should, because I think he's kind of a little bit of a chaos bisexual, he should have a boyfriend maybe. I think Jeremy should maybe have a boyfriend.
Emma: I think he's definitely so one of the plots is that his wife is having an affair, we think, with his valet and it seems like the jealousy from Jeremy is definitely over the valid and not his wife. Maybe he's in love with his va;et.
Chels: Actually, i'm actually back in Jeremy Book. If this is is the outcome. I think there's not enough valet…because think think of how romantic that is.
Emma: Dressing each other! Oh, my gosh!
Beth: like when your relationship takes a turn, and he's dressing you. I think you've done time and time again, and maybe it meant more to the ballot. But all of a sudden Jeremy sees it.
Chels: It's like, okay, Wait, Coldbreath, get her on the line!
Beth: Like you said Chels, she does auditions like she'll do like a write something out
Emma: like a chemistry read of writing.
Beth: Yes, I love that so much, and she just hasn't found like the right great person yet.
Chels: It’s because it’s his valet, Coldbreath.
Emma: It’s right in front of her face.
Beth: I also want to like we talked offline as well about how we kind of want a book for Amanda, even though it doesn't seem like she's not portrayed very nicely in this book. But I love that actually as a start for her character. I think it could be so cool to watch.
Chels: Amanda is Jeremy's wife
Emma: The closest that there is to like up there I'll be their villains, the smugglers who can at Mina, but even then they're kind of charming like, but she kind of used, her function of her plot. She comes to the Merry Harlot, and sort of talks down to Nina and also the servants, and it's sort of this like union, where, like Mina, is, is aligning herself more with the prizefighters, women, and the servants than Amanda, who she might have access to through her like relationship with Jeremy. So she sort of turns down that like upper crust like connection, because Amanda is talking down to her and talking down to the the life that she lives. So I mean it's definitely like very uppity, and it is very unsympathetic. She likes to sneak away so that she doesn't have to continue confronting Mina that she seems very like duplicitous. But I think she could be an interesting heroine.
Beth: Yeah, I I love that like a very unsympathetic character because then, if you can make them sympathetic. Oh, the journey is just like so nice.
Chels: Yeah, you got to start somewhere, and it should be at the worst.
Beth: Yes, please be the most terrible person I will read your book.
Emma: Continue to be terrible, and thank you so much for listening to Reformed Rakes. If you enjoy the podcast, you can find bonus content on our patreon at patreon.com/reformedrakes. You could also follow us on Twitter and Instagram for show updates. The username for both is at reformedrakes. Thank you again, and we'll see you next time.
