For the Earl’s Pleasure
Show Notes
Currently on hiatus from writing historical romance, Mallory has written eleven histroms. Her books often are genre hybrids, with a mystery plot as an undercurrent with the romance. The books are Regencies and edge toward the wallpaper line, with a few historical inaccuracies, almost dollhouse like settings and sometimes some incomprehensible world building. For the Earl’s Pleasure is a mystery-romance hybrid as we try to uncover what led to Valerien Lord Rainewood attempted murder, which now has him unconscious in an undisclosed location. But luckily for Valerian, the object of his longtime teasing and bullying, Abigail Smart has a gift: she can see ghosts and while Valerian is unconscious, he appears to Abigail.
Books Referenced
The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches by Sangu Mandanna
Seven Secrets of Seduction by Anne Mallory
One Night is Never Enough by Anne Mallory
Three Nights of Sin by Anne Mallory
Transcript
Emma
Welcome to Reformed Rakes, a historical romance podcast that will tease you from beyond the grave. I'm Emma, a law librarian writing about justice and romance at the Substack Restorative Romance.
Chels
My name is Chels. I'm the writer of the romance Substack, The Loose Cravat, a romance book collector, and a book talker under the username chels_ebooks.
Beth
I'm Beth, and I'm a grad student, and I'm on Book Talk under the name bethhaymondsreads.
Emma
How do I describe an Anne Mallory book? For me, Mallory is an author that I let get away with almost anything. Quirks and peccadillos that would cause me to DNF another book, I not only tolerate in an Anne Mallory book, I relish and enjoy. Currently on hiatus from writing historical romance, Mallory has written 11 historical romances. Her books are often genre hybrids, with a mystery plot as an undercurrent with the romance. The books are regencies and edge towards the wallpaper line, with a few historical inaccuracies, almost dollhouse-like settings, and sometimes some incomprehensible world building. But what makes Anne Mallory sing for me is her relationships and the chemistry between the couples. When I read One Night is Never Enough, my favorite Mallory, the first time the couple had sex, I went back and reread it from the beginning because I was convinced they had already had sex. That's how charged I thought the relationship was. These books are not expressly more explicit or quote unquote, spicier. How Mallory creates her tension is through character work and small moments of intimacy. I frequently lose track of what a Mallory character looks like. I find she tends to emphasize not what bodies look like, but where they are and what they're doing.
Emma
So it makes sense to me that Mallory, an author less interested in the image of a body, writes a romance where one of the characters, for most of the book, does not have a body. In the words of Chels, For the Earl's Pleasure is the classic childhood friends to enemies, to one of us is a ghost, to lover trope. For the Earl's Pleasure is a mystery romance hybrid as we try to uncover what led to Valerian, Lord Rainewood's attempted murder, which now has him unconscious in an undisclosed location. But luckily for Valerian, the object of his long-time teasing and bullying, Abigail Smart, has a gift. She can see ghosts, and while Valerian is unconscious, he appears to Abigail. I can honestly say I've never quite read a book like this. So before we do our plot summary, do you have any thoughts about what makes Anne Mallory special?
Chels
Yeah, I've read a lot of histrom, and I think Anne Mallory has a style that's just like, utterly unique. If she were to write a new historical and I did a blind read, I think I would be able to guess that it was Mallory. Her worlds tend to feel a little gritty and dreamlike, and I'm not just saying that because this is a paranormal. Three Nights of Sin feels the most like a noir out of any historical romance I've read. That's another book of hers. Speaking of that book, one of my favorite things about Mallory is how she writes men, actually. I know a lot of people think that historical romance authors writing heterosexual couples write men as more interesting by default. I disagree with this. I think people just say that because they're overly critical of women characters. But the men in her books are a particular strength in that for all their wealth, attractiveness, what have you, they can't be used as a shortcut for a general romance archetype. Like her spoiled air to a dukedom isn't going to be like anybody else's. Her grumpy crime Lord isn't going to be like anybody else's.
Beth
I love Anne Mallory for the fact that she is playing the genre. I feel like current Histrom feels too much like four tropes in a trench coat type of scenario. Where you could see she is really purposely trying to pull from different genres and be like, How would this work if I had this paranormal aspect and mystery and these friends who are no longer friends, but they're obviously still in love with each other. It's a story. I love that. I agree with Chels. I was like, I think you could just hand me a manuscript. I would be like, Is this Anne Mallory?
Emma
Nobody really writes like her. One of the things I love about her, which I think may be to a detriment to other people, but I'm trying to pitch Anne Mallory to people. Her books take a lot of effort to read, which is not necessarily a selling point for a lot of historical romance. I think a lot of people approach romance as like, Oh, this is a fun romp. It's going to be an easy read. But I feel like you have to really pay attention to Anne Mallory. I think our listeners will see this when they hear the plot description. This book has a lot of plot in it that doesn't always make sense. But this also manifests in her dialogue. I think her conversation sometimes can be hard to track. I think initially I was frustrated with this, but then I realized, is it a sin for me to have to pay attention closely to a book? I was so charmed by Mallory that I landed on no. That it's like, if the book demands my attention and I am compelled to give it to it, that's only a good thing. I think that's one of the reasons why I'll tolerate some of these quirks.
Emma
She does have historical inaccuracies that sometimes some of the language is wrong. I think she refers to dukes with the wrong title sometimes and that sort of thing. But I just tolerate it because I'm so charmed by how she writes characters.
Beth
I feel like another thing about her is she doesn't over-explain things. In her writing style, she's very rarely telling you something. She's mostly just showing a dialog scene or an action. She very rarely stops and is like, By the way, reader, this is important, or over explains something. Which is why I think her plots are so hard to follow because she does not want to hold your hand. She just is like, All right, let's go.
Emma
When I was writing the plot summary, I kept having to say, this character references this plot point rather than this thing happens. The character will say something, and if you've been paying attention, you will know what that means. But when I've been writing the plot summary and I've parsed down what happened, I'm like, I can't just say that this thing happened because it didn't just happen. Someone's obliquely referencing it, and you have to put the pieces together. It does work as a mystery because you really don't know what's going on. I'll do a plot summary. Hold tight, listeners. A lot happens, and if you don't follow the end of it, it's okay. Just go on vibes.
Emma
As an eligible earl, Valarian Danford, Lord Rainewood, is in the in-group of the ton, and Abigail Smart is held to a second social tier. Her family has money but no social standing. They have a history of trading barbs, social events, but usually quietly in corners, so no one seems to suspect that her animus stemming from some childhood spat. Least of all, Abigail's social climbing mother and their escort, Mrs. Browning, hired to procure introductions to help Abigail get a marriage proposal.
Emma
Their social groups meet at a ball and they trade barbs. There are rumors of a corruption list circulating the ton, which has the names of families who are mad. Secret mental illness that everyone would rather not be announced to the ton. Abigail provokes Valerian, and he speaks quietly to her with contempt, referencing her mother's social climbing and Abigail's spirit. As he's leaving a club after the ball, suddenly both Valerian and his friend Templing are knocked over the head on the street and pass out. A few days later, Abigail is in her drawing room, watching a couple have sex. The couple is a pair of ghosts, a maid and a footman. Abigail can see spirits. They tend to ignore her and go about their ghostly business. She's had this power for years and usually attempts to ignore them back, but can find her mind wandering. Abigail has few options for suitors, but she's consumed with hiding her secret that she worries could lead to incarceration in an asylum. Later that night, at a ball at his home, Valerian is trying to get someone's attention. In the ballroom, he sees Abigail and unlike everyone else, she can see him.
Emma
She realizes this must mean he's dead, but he speaks to her, demanding and then rejecting her offered explanation. She remembers his words when they were younger, "You were mad. Never speak to me again." She implores to him, "Deal with this on your own." Valarian has to reconcile that some of Abigail's odd behavior that he's noticed over her years of watching her might be explained by her ability to see ghosts. He tries to speak to anyone else and cannot. When Abigail leaves the party, he struggles to leave the house, hitting a force field at the door. But then with great concentration, he's able to think of Abigail, and he arrives in her carriage along with her mother and Mrs. Browning. Mrs. Smart's anxiety about Abigail's odd behavior increases as she begs off that evening with a headache. When she retires to her room, Valerian follows and Abigail begrudgingly attempts to explain what is happening. He is a spirit, and he has stayed here possibly because of some unfinished business. But Valerian insists he doesn't feel dead. Abigail's maid, Telly, joins them. She knows about Abigail's gift and treats Abigail reverently for it. Abigail tries to encourage Valerian to go...
Emma
Abigail tries to encourage Valerian to let go from whatever he's holding onto in life, or at least go haunt something that might actually occupy his thoughts, but he assures her that she would absolutely be the person he would haunt if he were actually dead. She goes to sleep and he's anxious to stay near her, in part because her presence seems to ground him, help his mental capacities. When she wakes, she learns that Valerian who can't see her other ghosts that occupy her house, which suggests he may not be dead despite being a spirit in her presence. Abigail has to prepare for her suitor, so Valerian sees just how her mother and Mrs. Browning speak to her, and he's offended on her behalf. He witnesses the suitor visit Abigail and expresses both his current distaste for the man and the idea that he had gotten rid of the man weeks ago. At every subsequent interaction with the suitor that day, Valerian is in Abigail's ear giving commentary on the unsuitability of the man for Abigail. On the final match of the day, Abigail and her suitor go for a walk in the park with Valerian tagging along.
Emma
Valerian slips up, and one of his comments confirms to Abigail that he has seen the corruption list with the name of mad individuals on it. Later, when they are fighting about his behavior during the day, Valerian suddenly disappears from Abigail's sight. He wakes up somewhere in great pain and hears men talking about him, but quickly passes back out, but does not immediately return to Abigail. In an effort to find him, Abigail solicits a visit with Valerian's dragon of a grandmother, the dowager Duchess, who speaks to Abigail with contempt. But Mrs. Browning is able to secure a visit. There, Abigail sees Valerian's younger brother, Lord Basil. When listens to the anodyne conversations, Ghost Valerian walks in and his defenses are down over his relief of seeing Abigail again. He approaches her directly with little consideration of others in the room or how Abigail's reaction will be interpreted. In a haze, he's able to touch her, and this time it is something between a ghostly a nontouch and a corporeal solid one. Abigail tries to keep up conversation, and it seems to endear her to Lord Basil, despite her awkwardness at the visit, which helps stave off commentary from her mother and Mrs. Browning, though Valerian is furious at the idea of his younger brother courting Abigail.
Emma
Back at home, they discuss his ghostly state. Valerian wants Abigail to break into the home of Templing, the man who was kidnapped with Valerian, to look for clues or another possible ghost. He cannot go by himself because his ghostly form does not allow him to move voluntarily without Abigail. They're able to get into the office of Templing's home and find his ledger after sneaking away from a ball nearby. Abigail takes the ledger and hides it in the garden at the ball, but Mrs. Browning finds her slightly disheveled. A group of young men, including Lord Basil and Gregory, one of Abigail's friends, volunteer a lie for her--that she had been with them in the garden, only for Valerian and Abigail to realize the ledger they stole is missing from their hiding place. When they return home, the Smarts' household had been ransacked. Valerian interprets this as Abigail in danger for her investigation, and he wants her to outsource it. But she's hesitant to tell anyone anything for fear of revealing her gift and ending up in an asylum or being disbelieved, like how Valerian did not to leave her when they were children.
Emma
In their squabble, Valerian calls Abigail her childhood nickname, Abby, which spurs her to think of him more affection and try to help him without revealing her gift to anyone. Rather than tell anyone anything, Abigail wants to go to the gaming hell where Valerian last was. Telly helps Abigail get a footman's and accompanies her to the Hell. When Abigail is outside the building, Valarian is able to walk inside the Hell. He recognizes men who were there the night he and Templing were attacked. They speak about getting paid for the attack and start to leave. Valerian cannot follow without Abigail, so they get into a carriage and follow to a fancy neighborhood, only to realize the men are going to Valerian's younger brother's house. Valerian thinks this means that Basil has had him kidnapped. The next day, while on an outing with the suitor, Abigail's reticule is stolen. She chases after the thief herself, and it is revealed as a trap. The men know that Abigail was at the Hell and want to know why. Why? Valarian, unable to help, implores her to reveal anything that will save her, but her partial truths that keep a ghost involvement out of the story are unsatisfactory.
Emma
When they seem like they're going to hurt her, Valarian rears back and punches one of them in the face, giving Abigail a moment to get away, but then Valerian disappears again. Valerian wakes back up where he's kept to the sound of screams, but he quickly passes out once more. Abigail uses the same method to find him again by going to her grandmother's house. This time when he shows up, his touches feel even more real. Valerian does not want Abigail to entertain Basil's advances, fearing that he is the one who hired the men to hurt Abigail. When they get back to Abigail's bedroom, Valarian can't stop touching her. It seems to ground his memories and thought processes. They try to figure out where he's being held. Valerian knows it's not Bedlam, though they can't be sure of the location. Valerian remembers a street sign. They ask Telly to look through London for options of what he might see. They attend a ball together, and without Valerian's earthly presence keeping them at bay, the men of the town seem distinctly interested in Abigail, much to Valerian's dismay. She dances with Mr. Campbell, one of Valerian's friends, and this also raises the ire of Gregory, which makes Valerian suspicious of Gregory's involvement.
Emma
Back in Abigail's bedroom, spurred by Campbell's expressing interest in Abigail, Valerian finally kisses Abigail. They fumble through the rules of his ghostly status, realizing that while he can touch her, he can't touch her clothing for very long, reminding them both of his in-between state. Telly interrupts, and when she leaves, Abigail and Valerian discuss what to do. Valarian makes a quip about the importance of lineage, and Abigail calls him on this fixation with it. He often uses it as a compliment or an insult, and he brushes this away. Abigail begs off to bed, and Valarian keeps watch. The next morning, Abigail wakes and Valerian is missing, but she assumes he's exploring the house. One of Abigail's ghost friends who always repeats herself as something out of sorts and saying new information, indicating something is amiss. Valerian arrives and tells Abigail they must go, a man is here for her. He describes him to Abigail and she immediately recognizes the man as a charlatan doctor who her mother previously used for treatments of Abigail. Abigail is terrified of the doctor, but her mother insists Abigail will feel better if she's rid of her curse. Abigail had told her mother that the previous intervention had worked in order to stop them, but now her mother knows she's been lying.
Emma
The doctor enters Abigail's bedroom. He references is not being able to give Abigail the full treatment, but is now looking forward to it. It's clear that this man sexually abuses girls whose families think they are crazy. The man has a liquid that disappears Ghost, which he had previously used on a ghost friend of Abigail's, is now trying to use on Valerian. The doctor's threats make it seem like people have been working against Abigail, but she has no idea who would take that interest in her. Valerian is able to shove the man's head against the wall, but he disappears again, with Abigail thinking the liquid has landed on him. Valerian wakes up in Abigail's cellar and hears her screaming. He's able to find standing up to her mother, insisting she will never be treated by the doctor. The doctor is removed and Valerian slips back into Abigail's room. She's overjoyed to see him and tells him of the doctor's treatment, which stops short just of raping her. Abigail wonders how Valerian did not get transported back to his own home like before. Valerian thinks about how he thought of home but had pictured Abigail's face.
Emma
This causes him to be glib with her to cover his emotions. They leave to go look for signs that match Valerian's description of what he saw at the window but find no buildings across the street that could be where he is held. The next day is the day of Abigail and Basil's outing, and Valerian is nervous for it, and Abigail tries to assuage him. She nervously plays with a brush on her night stand, and that Valerian meaningfully recognizes it as a birthday gift he bought for her when he was away at Eton that resulted in mockery from his friends. But he gifted it anyway and had bought her a matching comb later, though they had a falling out before he could give that to her. Abigail asks Valerian to touch her, and they fumble through the mechanics of a ghost hookup. The next morning, she finds a pub that matches the description of Valerian's sign but has to get back for her outing with Basil. They're going to go watch a hobby horse race in the park. The men who have been interested in Abigail for her attention, annoying Valerian to no end. During the race, as retaliation for her attentions on other men, he seduces her in the park, unseen to everybody else.
Emma
While Abigail is conversing with Basil, he reveals that Campbell has been staying with him. This piques their suspicion. The men who went to Basil's house could have been going to see Campbell. Valerian is suspicious of Campbell, so that night they break into Basil's house to look through Basil and Campbell's documents. They find a detailed accounting of Valerian's whereabouts, notes about the ransacking of Abigail's house, and the ledger that was taken from the garden. They interpret this to mean that Basil was looking for Valerian rather than responsible for his being missing and that he suspected Abigail's involvement, hence his new interest in her. They overhear Basil asking a drunken Campbell about the disappearance of Valerian, and Campbell reveals some hints that he's involved based on his debts being paid. Basil leaves, but Drunken Campbell sees Abigail. She has to convince him that it's all a dream Campbell speaks openly about his desire to marry her, to one-up Valerian. Abigail pulls off the trick and is able to leave the house. But in the street is the doctor and Sir Walter, the father of the woman that Valerian is supposed to soon be engaged to. The doctor yells "Thief!" And Sir Walter helps him stop Abigail and turns her over to the doctor.
Emma
The doctor recognizes Abigail and threats her. She knees him, he doubles over, and she's able to escape. While they're safely back in her room, Valerian is able to bring up memories of their parting. He hates how much he's become like his late older brother now, but Abigail insists the boy she loved was not like his terrible brother. They are intimate again and seem on the verge of admitting their love for each other. Valerian wakes with hesitations, the same issues that plagued their alive relationship, plague it now. Abigail's family are social climbers. He's nearly betrothed to another woman, and he still acutely feels what he perceived as a betrayal years ago. When Abigail wakes, her mother visits and lets her know that the charlatan doctor has been permanently dismissed. She tries to explain her reasoning behind the treatment. As a girl, she also saw spirits. She discussed with Abigail the length that she had gone to climb the ton. She used her knowledge of a family of ghosts, the Smarts, to create a false identity. Abigail's father was a middle-class man whose investments paid off. So they are very wealthy, but has no entry into the ton.
Emma
When he died, his wife took on a new higher-class identity. Abigail's mother was sexually abused by the doctor's father as a treatment. Abigail is able to see her mother with new compassion now, though she's still angry that her mother would let the same treatment even come close to her daughter. Abigail realizes that Valerian has been listening, but she's not sure how much he's heard. Mrs. Smart leaves, and Abigail avoids Valerian's glances and remembers the day of their falling out. Abigail had been waiting for Valerian in a copse near his home, when Thornton, the older brother, approached her. He references her ability to see him and demands help. Valerian arrives, and she does not realize that he cannot see Thornton. Valerian is trying to tell her about the accident they were in that caused Thornton's death. But Abigail does not understand because she does not yet realize that Thornton is dead. Ghost Thornton is openly saying cruel things to Valerian, so Abigail has the courage to stand up to him. But Valerian interprets her comments as directed at him, that he would be a bad earl, that he would never live up to his brother.
Emma
Combined with this perceived cruelty and his father and grandmother insisted that Abigail is no longer a suitable companion for the heir to a dukedom, Valarian quickly cuts her out. Thornton's Ghost is the first of many for Abigail, and the sudden severance with her best friend does genuinely drive her mad in these circumstances. Returning to the present, Valerian is not angry with Abigail, but was relieved to know the truth about her past. He asked her about the corruption list, but he admits he burned it once he saw her name on it, even before he knew the circumstances that would place her on there. At somehow another ball, Abigail has a private conversation with one of her friends that he nervously reveals that he's the one who knocked out Valerian and Templing, looking for the corruption list, worried about his own family's presence on it, though he never found it. Abigail thinks he's just one part of the plan, not involved in the actual kidnapping. While arguing about what to do, Valerian disappears again, but he's able to return that night directly to Abigail with more information where he is. Valerian also follows Abigail's maid, Telly, outside, and realizes that she's been passing information about Abigail's state to a lover and does not actually believe that Abigail sees ghosts.
Emma
He keeps Abigail from revealing any further plan to Telly. They go to where Valerian is being held and look for his body. Valerian's spirit is reunited with his body and he wakes up in great pain. Abigail is taken by cronies and finds that the person behind the scheme is Sir Walter, the father of Valerian's almost fiancé. He's been conducting experiments on residents of asylum under the guise of charity work. He also knows about Abigail's gift, so he's interested in Valerian twofold because he knows Valerian will bring him to her. The doctor has become a close confidante, and Sir Walter is also subsidizing Mrs. Browning as an informant on the Smarts. Abigail was right that her friend was an unknowing pawn in the scheme. Valerian was also able to break his confines and find a gun to subdue Sir Walter's threats. While weighing their options, a patient at the asylum stabs Sir Walter with a pair of scissors. Abigail is able to get Valerian out on the street into a cab. In the next few days, it is the talk of the town that the Smarts are interlopers. Abigail overhears the gossip in a store and assumes Valerian betrayed her secret.
Emma
Despite him still being in recovery, she insists on seeing him and ask why her background is now common knowledge, though he was the only one who knew. His grandmother is there and slips up and reveals she investigated the Smarts' past and spread the rumor herself. Valerian stands up to his grandmother and proposes to Abigail.
Emma
This is the only paranormal romance that I think I've ever read. I know both of you have more experience with the genre than I do. How does this compare? I'm specifically interested in the ghost mechanics, which are more appealing to me in a book than Paranormals that get closer to monster romance, like vampire or werewolves. Have you read other ghost romances before? And is something shared between this one and those?
Chels
There's one J. R. Ward book in the Black Dagger Brotherhood. It's like a vampire paranormal series from the mid-aughts. Well, I think it's actually went on for a long time, if it's not still going. But one of the early ones ends with the heroine being a ghost, and I think the ending is very polarizing from what I've understand. It's not quite similar because I think that she can still do a lot of the same tasks in her ghost form than she could as a human. There's also, you remember that famous cover where you move it and the ghost appears Everlasting? I haven't read that one, but I know that one's a ghost romance, and everybody buys it for the crazy cover. But I guess as far as this book goes, I think there's a lot of thematic and structural similarities, and for the Earl's pleasure, with paranormals that have vampires, demons, gods, and goddesses, specifically around trying to cheat death. In the paranormals that were very popular in the late '90s, early 2000s, you might have a character that's immortal, but they have that one person who they have to rely on to make living bearable.
Chels
This is what Abigail is doing for Valerian. He's stuck in limbo and has three options, solving the mystery and finding his body, living as a ghost for an indeterminate amount of time, or dying permanently. And that, cheating permanent death is something that's huge with paranormals.
Beth
Yeah, I don't feel like there's as many in the supernatural paranormal genre, there's not as many ghost romances. And maybe it's because they have to follow the same beats of either find the body and that person comes back to life. I think specifically for this book, what I found Just in general between paranormal romances that I've read is Mallory, it's not as all-consuming as some of the heavier paranormals I've read, but it's also the paranormal element is integrated really well into the romance. You could not take out Abigail being able to see spirits or her background, and it would massively change the book. It could be changed those elements. Whereas I feel some... I'm going to particularly come for the trend of cozy witch books. The supernatural elements in those books feel really superficial. I feel like authors won't fully explore the ramifications of the world they've built. One particular book I read, this Very Secret Society of Irregular witches. And I liked it, but I don't know. The author does some things with gender where it's like all witches are female, but it just was very essentialist that I don't think she really thought through, and that there was a curse only on the female line that I was like, Okay, but then why would people have kids if when you have a child, a girl daughter, then you will die?
Beth
I don't know.
Emma
Maybe we should call Cozy fantasy, wallpaper fantasy.
Chels
Oh my gosh.
Beth
Seriously.
Beth
I feel like that book I read, though, she could have just been a nanny, and I don't even know if you would have had to change too much of the story to make it work. But For the Earl's pleasure, it definitely feels much more integrated.
Emma
Yeah, you really couldn't do the book because the whole point is that they're able to have this intimacy with each other because they're only seeing each other in the ton. And so that's the whole thing with Abigail and Valerian is that they had this continued barb throwing relationship for years now, but it's always in public in corners where they don't want people to know that they have this distaste for each other, though, of course, lots of people notice. But finally, they're able to be in a room together. I found myself when I was writing the plot summary, I frequently started paragraphs and then they're back in private and then they're back in. They're always structured around these moments where they just couldn't be together alone. I think that's also one of the things that makes it distinct from a lot of historical romance is that's the kind of things, a couple being alone together frequently only happens after a big declaration or after a big moment or lots of trials and tribulations to get to the part where they're they're sneaking around together or they're engaged. This happens very early in their relationship, so it's able to be structured differently than even a lot of it's historical romance peers.
Emma
I will say I do love ghost romances as movies. This is one of my favorite genres of movies, and I wish that more people would write because I mostly want to read historical romance. I want more historical romance ghost stories. One of my favorite historical romances or my favorite ghost romance of all time is actually a historical romance. It's The Ghost and Mrs. Muir, which is from the 1940s, which does remind me of this a lot. She's the only one who can see him. They don't have a past like Abigail and Valerian do, but I think it's the intimacy is structured very similarly. That movie is different because they can't touch each other. It's this clever way to get around censorship in the 1940s is they have this very charged relationship, and it's almost able to be more charged because you know they're not going to touch each other. They have this insane chemistry that doesn't need to be censored at all because they're never bodily interacting. But yeah, this is just me. This is my pitch for more ghost regencies. I would read all of them.
Beth
I feel like it looks really well, though, because if you have a budget, an actor being a ghost, you just have to have someone walk through them once or twice, maybe walk through a wall. But most of the time, it's just Everyone in that room ignoring that one person.
Emma
It's so fun. It's a big trend in the 1940s, I think as an outpouring of World War II. The reason that people argue it is that after all this death, people want to see people come back from the dead or have this ghostly presence on Earth. So some of them, they get a happily ever after in heaven, or sometimes the people are able to occupy another body and come back. But it's a whole little mini genre in the 1940s that I love that I'm always seeking ghost romances, and I would like more of them in historical romance novels. Continuing with Ghost. I think there's some aspects of his ghost identity that I think make for interesting structural elements in the romance, which I think we already touched on. First off, it's a temporary and exclusively perceived by Abigail. Secondly, unlike something like a vampire or werewolf romance, Valerian is not in community with other ghosts, which I thought was interesting because I think that's often a sense of or a some part of paranormal romance. There's a werewolf community or a vampire community that the non-paranormal person has to deal with. I think this changes the arc of the romance.
Emma
Abigail is the one who knows about ghosts, mostly as a viewer. She learns the rules through observation, but Valerian is the one who is a ghost. Mallory's world building is sometimes what gets away with her in her more earthly bound books. But we talked about this as we were reading it, that this almost seems to ground her in creating a structure around what is happening in the book. So why do you think that works so well?
Chels
Yeah, Mallory is withholding a lot of information that both Abigail and Valerian know, namely the cause of the fallout between them and what happened to Valerian's older brother. She also withholds what happened to Abigail to make her so afraid of being discovered. So as you're reading the questions keep building and building, and you have to do... What you're saying earlier is, Pay attention. But the emotional aspect of a later reveal is much greater, in my opinion. So it's important that you aren't firmly oriented in the world and what's going on. Like, your lack of knowledge is going to help with some of the payoff in the end. Neither Abigail or Valerian really know what's going on with Valerian, actually. So Abigail is familiar with spirits, but Valerian isn't quite like the others. He's not actually dead. He can remember their previous encounters, and he can follow Abigail around and touch her in a way that the other ghosts can't. So for all of Abigail's expertise, they're really at sea about what's happening. Because of this, it's so much easier to go with them into the unknown, even though they're withholding a lot of information. We're all just figuring it out as we go. But in the meantime, let's let Valerian have a few tantrums.
Beth
Yeah, we spoke about this in the chat about why this book seems to work a little bit better. And I feel like her other books, she has a series where it's some vaguely sinister underworld character, but no one really knows what's going on. I never know what those male characters are doing in the Underworld. I just know that they're supposed to be maybe scary.
Chels
They're baddies.
Beth
But they're not actually that scary. But I feel like what Chels is talking about, how Mallory hangs on to information almost to the end, because it is structured like a mystery. But I feel like this really grounds her as well. She's constantly answering questions and what are the limits of Abigail's abilities? What are the repercussions of those abilities? Who knows what? I think, yeah, this This works a lot better for her. And then she said this during the Regency, Why would you set your Ghost Book during the Regency? And I think she has the why, where Emma talked about earlier, where you have all these scenes where they can be together, where it's like, they wouldn't have that type of interaction outside of people watching them.
Beth
It would always be in a public space, so they could never reevaluate their relationship. So I feel like that world building really helps with the the why of the relationship and how it changes. And then there's a looming threat of her being thrown in an asylum. We talked about this earlier where there's a very scary doctor character. So she's... Her mom really wants her to get married, but if she gets married, then her husband might discover that she's strange and he can throw her in an asylum. But then the doctor is just a looming character in the background because the mom still has ties to him, so he still comes to the house sometimes. So it's just this ever present threat. And it's not like people... Obviously, people still get institutionalized today, but I feel like it's a different flavor back in the Regency.
Emma
I was thinking about as Chels was talking about the second chance. So it's a second chance because they're children when they first are friends. But I think one of the reasons this works, I'm trying to remember if Mallory has written other second chance romances, but I think that withholding of information is one of the things that makes certain second chance romances work for me and others not. Sherry Thomas does that as well. She loves the second-chance romance where you don't know why the falling out happened or what the details of it were until much later in the book. I think that tends to work better for me when the characters know something that the reader doesn't. I think so often in dual POVs, especially, the tension is between one character knowing something and the other character not. I like it when the reader doesn't know everything, too. I think Mallory's interest in mystery plots prepares her more to write a mystery among emotions as well. It's just so good. So yes, second-chance romance. But also, I think most people would call this enemies to lovers. I've realized we've definitely done books that are enemies to lovers.
Emma
I don't know how often we talk about it in those terms because we're not really trope dudes. That's not how we talk about books. That's not how we like books. Just categorically, I don't think any of us are trope-forward readers. I personally don't find it particularly useful in determining whether I will like a book. But enemies to lovers is one of those popular buckets. It's big on how people talk about books. Sometimes there's discourse about what counts as enemies. Chels has this line where they have said before about not... Assuming how low the stakes are to take them to form an enemy, because sometimes people are like, You have to be at war with each other to be enemies. And it's like, You've never had an office job.
Beth
I feel like I've had an enemy at every office job I've ever worked.
Chels
You make a BookTok enemy every day.
Emma
But I don't think you could read this book and not think that they're enemies, because I love how mad Valerian is at Abigail. It's a relationship that in all visible markers, he is more powerful. He's an Earl. He fits into the ton really nicely. He's a man. His group of friends really wonders why he has this fixation on Abigail to begin with, who is not quite a wallflower, but it's definitely in a second-tier social group. But he is so upset with her by the betrayal that he perceives that he holds the angry tendre for her for years. What are your thoughts on this trope at large? Is it really a trope? Sometimes we talk about tropes and we decide that they're not actually tropes because I just think enemies to lovers is a really big bucket. You have both office enemies and warring, factions enemies. And then how is it working here?
Chels
I've said for years that my number one enemy is Brett that works at the Valero in Dallas, Texas. So I refuse to believe that people can't be your enemy for a minor slight. My number two enemy is Anthony Bridgerton, fictional character Anthony Bridgerton. I'm not his number one enemy either because he's not real. And also that would be bees, I think. But yeah, I think people need to have a better imagination when it comes to enemies, because if I can't have an enemy. I'm not in a decades long dueling war with somebody. I've tried. But let the people have enemies. That's all I'm saying. But what's interesting about this is, so Emma alluded to this earlier, but what's interesting about the enemies to lovers in this book is that it overlaps with friends to lovers and second chance romance. So it doesn't really neatly fit all of them. Although I think the enemies to lovers is definitely the strongest out of the three because the romance was just blossoming before. And then there's a friends to lovers to one of us is a ghost to lovers. No, friends to enemies to one of us is a ghost lovers.
Chels
There's a bit longer path. When people talk about enemies to lovers, they're like, they have to be in a years long family feud or actively trying to kill each other like we were talking about earlier. And I think that's a reaction to people not liking contemporary romances that are labeled enemies to lovers, like those office romances because they think the stakes aren't high enough. I actually don't think enemies to lovers needs to be high stakes. I think it needs to be high emotion. You need to understand why they hate each other, and there needs to be a palpable shift in attitude. Less skilled authors will just use banter to signal that characters dislike each other. But the problem with that is that it reads like flirtation. So instead of getting enemies to lovers, you're getting like, wow, the vibe in marketing is weirdly charged today.
Beth
No, I really like that. I think you exactly diagnosed what people people are talking about. It is frustrating. People will say if they're not trying to kill each other, I don't believe it's enemies to lovers. But I think that short changes modern relationships. I think enemies to lovers tracks the changes a relationship can take. Sometimes you don't always like each other. Maybe something bad really happens between the two of you. Or maybe it's at the start of the relationship and you both don't see each other correctly. Maybe one person is assuming worse attributes about the other person. I still think that's high stakes. Wouldn't you feel terrible if like, Yeah, when I first met you, I thought you were a bitch. You wouldn't feel great, right? I don't know. I feel like my first impression of a lot of people often doesn't even really match up with who they are. It's just impossible to really know someone until you get to know them. I think Enemies to Lovers is a good way to explore that tension.
Emma
I like in this book that I think a frequent, at least in historical romances, that I enjoy a frequent edit of the trope is Enemies to Lovers, but he's been secretly in love with her the whole time, and he's aware of his feelings. That is- That one.
Chels
Ruined by Rumor.
Emma
That's- Yes. There's so many books that I enjoy like that. There's been a miscommunication. She assumes that he's thinking the worst of her, but actually he has great affection for her. I love those books. But I think in this book, Valarian does have this fixation on Abigail, but I think if you asked him at any point leading up to him being a ghost, he was like, I hate Abigail. He's not in touch with his feelings towards her. He really does feel this betrayal very acutely. So it feels more equitable. I think Abigail also knows... She knows she can look at the circumstance of their falling out and interpret it as he did and be like, I really hurt him, and Also, I don't have the opportunity to explain to him what happened, even though it's a miscommunication and she wasn't really trying to hurt him, she's not holding anything against him. She's just like, she's powerless to correct his perception of it. Then also he's continued to hurt her for the years intervening and keep in her place in the ton, which is like this natural reaction to the betrayal that he feels. I think it gets that high stakes thing, and it's not a reveal, like, Oh, I've been in love with you for years, and I've been not telling you about it. He's been in love with her for years and has had no idea.
Beth
It's funny, though, because don't all his friends know? Doesn't he scare his friends away from- Yes.
Chels
Yeah. Lying to himself like, I'm doing this to be mean to her, but really It's for my own gratification.
Emma
And nobody realizes. Nobody realizes that I'm obsessed with her. And they're like, We all knew. Which leads to some of my favorite scenes when he's at the ball. They go to seven balls in this book, and each ball, each subsequent ball, more of the friends try to flirt with Abigail. They're like, Oh, Valerian has been gone for a few days. Maybe I can get my chance to get with Abigail. And he just increasingly has more petulent responses. And he's stomping his feet She's like, It's very cute. So we're still on the subject of their relationship. I think this is true across Mallory, and we've hinted at this. I think that a trait of Mallory is chemistry between couples. I will put up with her kookiest plots, like plots that I can't comprehend what's going on because I'm always so invested in her couples. So what makes a Mallory pairing special? Amongst the books you've read, is there something that unites her couples or characters? What makes a Mallory pairing a Mallory pairing? And why does it work so well?
Beth
I don't even know if my point is very comprehensible, but we'll go down this path together. I find a lot of similarity between Anne Mallory and Sherry Thomas, where what I think of first is the chemistry they build between the couples and relationship-building scenes, like we mentioned earlier, she's much more show. She shows the couple being together. She creates a why for maybe why these characters would like each other, what their beef is. And I think it's a little different from the individuality of the characters. I wouldn't even say Anne Mallory's character is that different from each other. I don't know if you guys agree, disagree with that. I would put Mary Balog as someone who creates really unique characters. I feel very different. But this circled Twitter a few days ago, or maybe it was just one tweet I saw that Bayley.
Chels
Bayley at the scene of the crime.
Chels
This is how you start discourse. You're like, this is a topic, and you're like, no, just one tweet.
Beth
It was just one tweet. But it was the author, Rebecca Witherspoon. She just said a lot of romance writers are not showing romantic scenes or reasons why couples would like each other. I think as we were talking about enemies to lovers, this is especially prone to this, where it's like the author is hitting the antagonistic beats, but either they're not being mean enough, or maybe I just don't believe why they're being antagonistic.
Emma
I think sometimes they hold back and you don't want to... You want them to be too mean because then you're worried about the reader losing Losing one of the characters. Yeah. Yeah.
Beth
But I feel like if an author does a good enough job, I can see both viewpoints, even if I'm frustrated with one of the characters. But I feel like what makes an Anne Mallory couple, her, like an Anne Mallory couple, is very charged scenes. In One Night is Never Enough, the Chess scene. I feel like it's very stereotypical of her, where it's like, I don't want to relay the plot of this book, but the sex is looming in the background, and it feels inevitable because that's why she's there at the house. The female main character is there because she's going to have sex with the male main character. But they just have Chess instead. And then he doesn't. He's like, No, we're not going to have sex. And I was like, But this was very I just like, I don't think you guys needed to be together. Yeah, so she has these scenes pretty frequently. And in this book, it's a lot of time they spend together and alluding to their past, like we talked about before. We don't get a lot of information. And we don't even know the big thing that broke them, I think almost till the end.
Beth
It's close to the end of the book. Also, I get annoyed with writers. They assume that they're building tension by telling me that a charged look has happened, or one character is having horny thoughts, but it's only horny thoughts. If that makes sense. I feel like it can convey a change within the character. Maybe they never saw that character in that way. But I feel like it does not build sexual tension, or it often doesn't.
Chels
No, I totally agree with you. I feel like it's bad romance writing to just be like, Oh, he is so attractive, and then I'm... And just be reiterating that over and over and over in your head. Anne Mallory is also like, I think this is something that Emma has talked to us about offline a few times, is Anne Mallory is really not interested in what people look like at all.
Emma
You have no idea how tall anyone is. Sometimes I forget what hair color people have. She's not doing that. But there's no way that you would think that these books are not horny. They're definitely horny for each other despite not describing each other's bodies.
Chels
Yeah. And I think that's so cool. And that's like... And I wouldn't say that people should not describe... Because then Sherry Thomas describes how people look in great detail, and I love that so much. But also Sherry Thomas is like, her writing is really horny? I don't know. But compliment! But yeah, It makes you think like, oh, what could people be doing if they were focusing on a different aspect of craft instead of trying to convince the reader that both characters are hot and/or hot for each other? So for this book, I knew I was reading something special from the opening scene where Valerian and Abigail are circling each other and they're insulting each other. I'm going to read you some dialogue. It's so good. So Valerian says, "Fancy a crazed woman with a mother who is nearly a leper, one social finger falling off at a time? Do you think yourself enough of a catch? Your beauty, charms, and spirit so great that I would even deign to breathe in the same space as you?" And then Abigail says, "Is that so your Lordship? And yet here you are, breathing my air, coming closer to inhale more."
Chels
It was so hard. I know. It's so good. So he's getting in some slight digs about her seeing ghosts with the emphasis on spirit. But more importantly, that was very hot.
Emma
And they don't think anyone's noticing. They're like, We're doing this in private. Nobody's noticing us bantering in the corner together.
Chels
This is very private. And then also, again, for this book, Mallory does so much with physical touch. So we've already talked about how she doesn't really care so much about what people look like, but the tactile things was what makes this book what it is. So we learn at the end that Abigail's mother has been withholding physical affection at the advice of the evil doctor. But something that we learned much, much earlier is that Valerian, even in full bully Mode will find a way to surreptitiously touch Abigail, both for his own gratification and to torment her. Valerian in Ghost Mode goes through different stages of being able to touch, but he's only ever able to touch Abigail. When he disappears for the first time and she finds him at his family's house, there's this really raw emotional moment where she can't overtly acknowledge him because she's in a room with other people. But Valerian is desperately happy to see her again and discovers that he's able to touch her for the first time. So he, as a ghost, Ghost is petting her dress and stroking her cheek and touching her hair. Abigail is trying to keep it together, but this is something that she's wanted for so long, and she's overwhelmed at receiving it from the last person she thought would ever acknowledge her again.
Chels
Valerian's ability to touch Abigail gradually gets stronger, but he also tells her at one point that it's like touching her through a glove. So this is why I think Ghost Valerian isn't eligible for the HEA. There's a sense of wrongness that doesn't keep them from physical intimacy. There are some really, really great scenes in this book I think we'll talk about a little bit later, but slots the love scenes more thoroughly as part of the emotional journey of the characters than anything else.
Emma
Yeah, I love the dialog you included because that's one of the things. I think when I'm describing the plot of this book, it's hard, unless you're reading the book to understand what he means by spirit, especially when you're reading it the first time, it's like, Abigail reacts to that word. She acknowledges a reaction to that word, but we don't know what it means yet. Then when you read it again, once you know that she can see ghosts, it's Oh, he's referencing. He's doing this dig at her, but Anne Mallory doesn't explain it. It's not like... She doesn't explain Abigail's like, Oh, that word, because I can see Ghost. You just have to pick up on all these little clues in how they speak to each other. And that's true for across characters. Lots of characters will reference something to the side and you just have to pick up on it. Or if you don't, other clues will clue you into what's going on overall. I feel like every time I've read this book, I've noticed different connections between how characters reveal information to each other, Which is also very true to life. It feels very like sometimes you get pieces of information that you don't know what to do with or you don't know their meaning.
Emma
That's just the nature of communicating with people. When I was reading this book, especially this time, I noticed some elements that reminded me of YA I'm not really a YA guy, and I wasn't even really when I was a teen, so I've definitely read fewer of these books than probably the average reader. But the way that the characters interacted with each other, especially the cliques amongst the ton and all those coded relationships that are meaningful to some members and not to others, really It really reminded me of how you would structure a high school story where they're different in-groups, out-groups. I don't think I see this very often in romance. The secondary characters here are not set up for their own romances, which is something that I think we've all started to enjoy more and more and appreciate more and more as people get into series structures. All these characters have their own lives, so we're not just dealing with a coterie of chestnut haired Bridgertons. I think this is one of those things that makes Mallory work despite some of the wallpaperness. It reminds me a little of Gaffney Wyckerley, a series, they'll clearly on a smaller scale where Gaffney has lots of side characters that you have the sense that they have their own lives that we may or may not be privy to in the realm of Wyckerley.
Beth
I agree with that. I do like that you related it to high school because I feel like that's a more accurate descriptor of the ton. I feel like other wallpapers will treat the ton as important people who deserve their money and sometimes still care about poor people. I think Anne Mallory's depiction might be closer where it's a lot of people motivated by different factors, and those factors are more about gaining money in social standing. And yeah, like you mentioned, Mallory seems much more invested in making her current book work. And although her plots are convoluted, as we've been talking about, you can tell she's trying to make it work. But yeah, more high school dynamics among the ton, please.
Emma
It makes sense. It's like they're so young. It makes sense that they're not fully formed grownups and also indulge in the pettiness of cliques. I don't know why there aren't more cliques in the ton depictions in historical romance. I feel like any time you have people vying for romantic affection or any power, cliques are going to form. But I feel like you don't see that often, these codified groups that have an in-group and out-group. And when they meet, conflict happens.
Chels
Well, you get bullies, like Cressida in Bridgerton is the series bully. I think what makes Mallory different here is that Mallory isn't just like, Oh, here's the bully group. You get an easier idea of how they interact with each other and how they would interact apart from each other. Because Campbell, with Valerian, is very different than Campbell on his own. I think Anne Mallory has a better understanding of people's reasonings behind the way that they behave and how you can being in a group will influence your thinking, then something similar to be like, Oh, this is the bad guy. This is the one. This is the guy we don't like.
Emma
And you talked about how she writes male characters. There are a few different books that I think this happens in where I think... You mentioned Cressida in Bridgerton. I think often there's conflict between women in social groups. But I think she's good at writing men having a relationship and having conflict or different...acknowledging that they have different needs. I'm thinking about the brothers in One Night is Never Enough and the one that comes after that. What's it called? Something.
Chels
Seven something.
Emma
No, it's the one where she- The Crazy Grumpy Sunshine.
Chels
That's all I call it in my mind.
Emma
She's a series where they're two brothers, and the brothers have very different motivations. I think it feels very organic and natural for their relationship, which I feel like is not always depicted well when two men are friends or at odds with each other.
Beth
I think she could have easily also made the mom just bad, but she does give her a backstory and a why. I still don't really like her mom, but she's a more flushed-out character than I think she might have ended up being.
Emma
There's so many villains, but they have lots of different motivating factors for why they betray Valerian and Abigail on different scales.
Chels
In my mind, Valarian is James Spater in Pretty in Pink. He's the ultimate hot bully with a quick wit. When people are like, Oh, I don't understand the appeal of bully romance, when they're being rude, I'm like, Have you seen Pretty in Pink? Does that help? I do think there's also a different sense of scope for the clickish and bullying behavior and For the Earl's Pleasure. There would be moments when Abigail would notice that they're all circling her, and she's really bracing for something awful to happen in a way that made you, as the reader, be actually scared. I also like how it would be so easy to write it as something as simple as, Valerian thought Abigail was telling a hurtful lie, so that's why his behavior toward her changed. But Mallory doesn't really make it quite that straightforward. So the first change is Valerian going to school at Eton and realizing that his earnest affection for Abigail is something to be embarrassed by. He buys a hairbrush that she ends up keeping and treasuring, and he's humiliated because one of his friends, who we later learn is Campbell, is giving him a hard time about it.
Chels
So he's moved to an entirely new circle that Abigail doesn't really fit in with, and he's at the age where he's not confident enough to not care. And also, not for purely romantic reasons, but Campbell ends up pursuing Abigail when Valerian is out of commission. So Valerian is even just like, What the hell, man? What is the point of these groups?
Emma
Not until this moment did I think about if they hadn't had the conflict with the brother, with the Ghost Brother, that leads to their falling out, what would have happened between Valerian and Abigail? It's like they still might have had a falling out because Valerian's parents or his father and his grandmother don't like Abigail. They seem less interested in him keeping away from her when he's the second son, but they don't ever like her. Also, he's malleable to the point where he could be convinced by his friends when he's less powerful because he's the second son to do away with his relationship. Because they have this big falling out and he's so hurt by it, it's almost like he stays aware of her for longer. It's not a slow fade, so he doesn't just ghost her. He literally ghosts her later. It extends their relationship because of this cataclysmic event between the two of them. But without even the ghost factor of the betrayal, they could still not work out because of their her difference in social class and also Valerian's lack of confidence in pursuing her, even though he has this great affection for her.
Emma
There is another plot. Anne Mallory stuff so much plot in this, but Abigail is a fraud. Her family is not Their last name is not actually Smart. Her mom has been lying about their background so that Abigail can get an entry into the ton and marry a noble person. This is another in our canon of Fraud is Romantic, with Unmasked by the Marquess and the Ruin of Evangeline Jones. I love that Valerian thinks Abigail is one kind of fraud, lying about her ghostly visions to be cruel, when actually she is lying, along with her mother about her family's origins, to try and get into the ton. It makes her anxiety about the relationship really palpable. You can see why she is so scared of telling him the truth because she knows how he's reacted when he thought she was lying before to manipulate or control people. Related to the fraud are two things that I think Mallory does really well in spite of being wallpapery, is that she doesn't assume information travels as fast as it does now, which I think is a problem in a lot of historical romances. People will just know something very quickly.
Emma
This also comes up in The Earl I Ruined. I think that book handles information sharing really well. A few of Mallory's plots involve things being public knowledge without one person knowing it yet, which makes sense because there's not a 24-hour gossip cycle in the Regency, and I think she does a good job of showing people not quite fitting into the coded world of the ton. Abigail's mother is always just a little bit off socially, and I think we're used to seeing characters who either know the rules and fit into them well or want to rebuke them. But I like when characters want to fit in really badly and just can't because the rules are not bred into them.
Chels
This is my second time reading this book, and I was a bit surprised by how much darker it was than I remembered. The fraud is deployed here as a survival mechanism, like in the Ruin of Evangeline Jones. And Evangeline Jones, Evie has a mentor that steers her into this life of being a fraudulent medium, but he doesn't have her best interests at heart and is blasé about the consequences that she could face if she keeps upping the ante. This is similar to Abigail's mother, who has commandeered the smart family name to push her daughter into the ton, while she also knows that the ton has a level of scrutiny that could provide disasters for her daughter, who has similar supernatural powers that she needs to keep hidden. So there's this very real threat of incarceration or assault if Abigail isn't able to fit into the ton. Her mother brings in the doctor to, quote, unquote, cure her after Mrs. Browning, the companion, starts asking questions about Abigail's behavior. So Abigail is also worried about what Valerian could do to her if he has this list of ton secrets, while also knowing that he could tell people about her ability to see ghosts and get her more thoroughly ostracized at any moment.
Chels
I think this is something that's very important for Ghost Valerian. I like how he keep differentiating between the two. He always knew that he could move in the world differently than her. Abigail calls herself a gnat to his social Goliath. But in order for her to help him find his body, she has to walk a very delicate line and not behaving so oddly that she's going to get punished. This is near impossible to do when you have a cranky ghost yelling at you all the time. And sleuthing for a missing body is not something that delicate ladies of the ton are wont to do. So the stakes are very high. It's a very dangerous situation that I think adds to the darkness of the fraud in this book.
Beth
I have a comment on the fraud, just on your last part, Chels, where it's like, Valerian has the opportunity to watch Abigail move through the world. And so he'll ask her to do things. And she's like, I can't just go to this gaming hell. But also, I think it provides him an opportunity to... Obviously, by his very presence, people would change how they act. If Valerian is there standing with Abigail, they're going to act differently. But because he's not actually there, they can't see he's there, he can see how people treat her. I think that's important to their relationship and how it develops.
Chels
When he's watching her mother and Mrs. Browning berate her in the carriage and being like, Oh, you're not very pretty. Oh, you're not doing this right. He's just like, Why do you put up with this? And you're just like, You're an heir to a Duke. Nobody talks to you like this.
Beth
Yeah.
Emma
And he thought that she's a social climber like her mother for so long. He can't conceptualize that maybe...she's going along with her mother because there's this threat of incarceration. There's this threat of asylum that if she doesn't go along with what her mother wants, the doctor is going to come back. He just thinks that Abigail, because it goes along with his perception of her betrayal of him, that she's doing the same thing. She wants to marry wealthy. And so when I think a reader who's like, or an author who's not as attuned to that, could write Valerian keeping people away from Abigail's strictly cruel behavior. It's one of those things that's almost like an unforgivable act for some characters. We're like, that's really controlling and manipulative to prevent her from getting married because you have this fixation on her. But I think he could also justify it to himself. He's like, She's an upstart. She's trying to marry these people because of the power it will give her Because I see her as a social climber, he can justify it to himself that way. For every bad action, even for the villains, I think there's the subtlety to it, whether they're having trauma or there's some misperception on part of why they need to act this way, not to necessarily make it justified, but to explain it.
Beth
It's like the K. J. Charles approach. Why would someone be a social climber? We all do this where it's like, if someone wrongs you, then I assume more nefarious attentions on that person's part than is probably there. But yeah, it's like an intellectual exercise to actually think through what does this person stand to gain? They don't have the social security that he does. But I don't have much beyond that. I feel like this is the K. J. Charles approach.
Emma
So speaking of bad behavior, I love Beth's Goodreads review of it, of the book. She said, My favorite thing about Anne Mallory is that with every villain reveal, I'm like, Who? Wait, who is that again? There are so many characters that all have bad acts in this. It takes a while to figure out who the actual villain is, but there are lots of people who are involved in the plot, and maybe they don't know the level of involvement in the plot they have. Sir Walter comes out of nowhere as the person who's actually kidnapping Valerian. But for all our character work, the reveals of who the villains are are a little bit like, who? This may have been the most daunting plot summary I've ever written because in Mallory's book, they're just strung together by vibes. We know this. The things that I remember about a Mallory book are almost never the plot, instead little gestures of intimacy. I honestly have no idea who the villain is in One Night is Never Enough, a book I've read maybe six times, but I sell it to people based on a moment that happens with a bobby pin.
Emma
This book has lots of those, too. I always think of Ghost Valarian having a temper tantrum right behind Abigail's dancing partner when she suddenly becomes available because Valarian is not discouraging people from giving her attention. I just wanted to give both of you time to squeal over your favorite moments in this book. I did say the opening scene was one of my favorites, so I'm I'd like to let Chels read a bit of the dialog because it is just so pitch perfect.
Beth
Also, when they have sex in public, I will say that's a very memorable scene, too. She's at a racetrack, and it's He's getting her off in time to the audience, getting louder, so it's muffled. But it felt like such a cinematic scene. Emma was talking about this being a movie. I'm like, I've never seen this in a movie. This would be such an interesting scene, I think.
Emma
Yeah, for all of Mallory's lack of description, I really feel like I can visualize so many of her scenes so well.
Chels
Yeah, I have a really good picture of it. Okay, so for me, Valerian becoming a ghost reveals just how much power he had in getting people to back off Abigail because suddenly she becomes an appealing prospect again to Valerian's friends. And he has so many ghost tantrums when Abigail would dance with Campbell or a Penchard. And we don't really get to hear the full diatribes, but knowing that he's always... But Abigail is like, Oh, he's always insulting their parentage. That was just very, very funny to me. That's something the heir to a dukedom would have at the ready as an insult. And yeah, I have a similar experience with Mallory. I I actually have a really good memory for plots. And if I've enjoyed the book, I can usually talk about it long after I've read it. But for Mallory, it's like those little small moments that I remember. I remember Valerian's temper tantrums. I remembered them circling each other at the beginning. Couldn't for the life of me tell you who kidnapped Valerian or why Valerian was beefing with Abigail in the first place.
Emma
I always think about the hairbrush. I think the first few times I read this, the hairbrush reveal. What's nice about Valerian, and I think Mallory uses this to her advantage because the plot is so confusing. Valerian, as a ghost, has struggles with his memory. So sometimes he will see something and it will jog a memory for him. And so you're in line with Valerian because the reader also doesn't know all the information. So he's been in Abigail's room a ton But then he sees her playing with the handle of her hairbrush, and he's like, The hairbrush. I gave her that hairbrush, and it jolts him back to memory and grounds him. He's like, I remember the circumstances of that hairbrush. This is this symbol of our relationship together, and it feels very... That's the thing I remember, is that feeling of realizing that Valerian knows what the hairbrush is and has been thinking about it. And he has the comb in his closet still. It's so good.
Emma
Okay, do we want to talk about ghost sex? We can. I just think the mechanics of it are very interesting. I think it is all the sex scenes, actually. I don't think we actually see them have sex when he's a person?
Beth
No.
Emma
So he's continually developing the skill of being able to touch Abigail. At first, it feels like a whisper, and then it feels like a glove on his hand. Yeah, and then eventually, they're able... When they finally have sex, it seems like they're actually having sex. I don't think either of them are experiencing any veil. It's almost like as they get more emotionally connected, he's able to touch her more readily. I think that's mechanics of it because I think historical romance... I mean, I only read historical romance, so I can't speak for the whole genre. But I think they're really interested in the of sex, negotiating what are we allowed to do? What can we do without you getting ruined? Because he's a ghost, that's not really a question. There are no qualms about him having penetrative sex with her because they're just both so excited that they can do that because he's able to touch her now.
Chels
It doesn't count if he's a ghost.
Beth
You can get her first. It's fine.
Emma
Obviously, it feels novel because I've never read a historical romance where someone is a ghost having sex before. But I just love that Mallory's asking different questions. I think it also makes Abigail, who's very shy and scared of Valerian and scared of the consequences, she ends up becoming very proactive because I think the more engaged she is with him, the more he's able to be present with her as a ghost. She's the one who's asking him to touch her. And he's like, Can I even do that? How's this going to work? And she's pushing the interaction together.
Chels
Yeah, he can't seduce her. There are moments He's joking at the beginning where he thinks that it's a dream. He's like, If this is a dream, I'd have you on the floor. Or like, Why can't I be having sex with you? This is not... This is very boring. This is not what I would be dreaming. But Valerian literally cannot seduce Abigail. And so because he finds out... The way that Mallory writes it is that he can touch her skin, but he can't really touch her clothes for very long. So he can't untie her or unbutton or something. So it can't really work as a seduction in the normal way because he can't just overwhelm her and then get her undressed. He has to have Abigail's buy-in. If Abigail is going to take off her shift, it's something that Abigail wants to do. So that makes the love scenes a lot more charged, I think. At least that one in specific that I'm referencing. I think there's another one where Abigail gives him a blowjob, and then he fingers her at the hobby horse race. Which what a sentence.
Emma
I will say this, and I I'll put this in the plot summary, but the hobby horse, I learned because I googled it. I was picturing men with sticks with horses on their heads, but it's a bicycle, which makes so much more sense. I was like, Is this something that people did? Did people have hobby horses and they ran? I was like, this is- How whimsical. I was like, This is so many times. I was like, This is such a weird thing. Did Mallory make this up? It's a name for a specific type of bicycle. I was like, Oh. But I don't think it's ever clear in the book. It could be horses. I mean, maybe it is sticks with horses heads on them.
Beth
It is what it is. I feel like, Emma, you've talked about this in the past with historical romance, where it's the baseball diamond of being the sexual... And penetration is the last that they get to. So it's like, I don't know if this makes sense, but just like, you want there to be an evolution to this sexual relationship. And so it's a more interesting way to do it. It's like how long he can touch her, what she consents to. As the relationship grows, then the supernatural aspect changes along with them.
Emma
Yeah, and it's like, I think they get to this intimacy quicker because he thinks he's dreaming for the first part, and he's like, If I'm going to be dreaming, I'm to be touching Abigail. And then she thinks he's fully dead and a ghost. And she's like, Well, in her experience, ghosts are horny. So she's like, He's just got to do this till he leaves. So they get to this part. He's constantly touching her. He's stroking her neck and grabbing her waist, even before they really talk about their emotions. And they just accept it because she's like, This is what ghosts do. And I think that intimacy. And then the moment when he kiss her where it feels like this decision. And it's so odd because frequently a kiss the first touch that people have in a Regency romance. But this kiss is the first one that feels like a decision instead of a compulsion. Even though they've been touching each other or he's been touching her this whole time, very intimately, it's this big moment, which I think is the thing that only Mallory can pull off, where a first kiss, even though they've been touched before, feels like all of a sudden.
Emma
It's so good. Thank you so much for listening to Reformed Rakes. If you enjoy the podcast, you can find bonus content on our Patreon at patreon. Com/reformedrakes. Please rate and review us on Apple and Spotify. It helps a lot. You can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram for show updates. The username for both is at Reformed Rakes. Thank you again, and we'll see you next time.
